LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Electronic Scooter Controllers have become a popular addition to our vehicles. Ask specific questions about ESCs here!

***WARNING*** this section is for ADVANCED MODDERS. if you try anything in this section you NEED to expect minor issues with the build up to and including complete FAILURE of EVERYTHING in your freshly built BPRO.

Have fun ;-) :-)
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toycrusher
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts

Post by toycrusher »

wesleyb82 wrote:Is there an adjustment screw on top of the relay? If so loosen it, move the screw and retighten then check continuity. If that doesnt work pop open the relay case and check the internals. If you need the relay faster than 2 weeks from now I have them on hand, send me a PM if you are interested.
Yeah, Wesley also offers slightly better after sales support than the guys from China too :lol: :lol: :lol:


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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts

Post by jdmech60 »

toycrusher wrote:A couple more variations. This uses a single resistor to knock the 24v pilot signal down to 12v for the switches and relays. It adds in a master pot to limit speed available to the driver. It has a remote kill module tied into the brake circuit to not only cut power but also activate the brakes and shut down the excitement. :roll: Depending on if the remote kill module switches power or ground, the module along with the brake pedal could be flipped to the ground side of the brake relay instead of the positive side as is shown in the diagrams.

The 4wd mod is going to require 10 or 12 gauge wiring, although the current bottleneck will most likely be the LBD-14 ESC, not the wires. To really work well you would need a higher watt capacity ESC (around 700-1000 watt) and the 10 gauge wire on the load side of the schematic, or a dual ESC setup.
STATIC-s-rc-p-4wd-sm.png
STATIC-s-rc-p-sm.png
With this 4wd drive setup would the motors not back feed when switched off to the other motors due them being turned with the back tires turning? I am building a 4wd jeep for my girls and thought this would be nice to do but was going to use another dpdt relay to completely disconnect all wires to front wheels.
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts

Post by toycrusher »

jdmech60 wrote:
toycrusher wrote:A couple more variations. This uses a single resistor to knock the 24v pilot signal down to 12v for the switches and relays. It adds in a master pot to limit speed available to the driver. It has a remote kill module tied into the brake circuit to not only cut power but also activate the brakes and shut down the excitement. :roll: Depending on if the remote kill module switches power or ground, the module along with the brake pedal could be flipped to the ground side of the brake relay instead of the positive side as is shown in the diagrams.

The 4wd mod is going to require 10 or 12 gauge wiring, although the current bottleneck will most likely be the LBD-14 ESC, not the wires. To really work well you would need a higher watt capacity ESC (around 700-1000 watt) and the 10 gauge wire on the load side of the schematic, or a dual ESC setup.
STATIC-s-rc-p-4wd-sm.png
STATIC-s-rc-p-sm.png
With this 4wd drive setup would the motors not back feed when switched off to the other motors due them being turned with the back tires turning? I am building a 4wd jeep for my girls and thought this would be nice to do but was going to use another dpdt relay to completely disconnect all wires to front wheels.
It's a valid question. A DPDT relay would be just as easy and eliminate that possibility. However, with the amount of drag a gearbox induces, I can't imagine many circumstances when you would to turn the 4wd off. You could wire it slightly different to make it fwd, rwd, or 4wd and that would have some benefits ;)
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts

Post by jdmech60 »

I will probably just go full time 4wd to make it easy and one less thing to fail. I appreciate all who has went through the trouble of putting together the diagrams they have been extremely helpful in that I didn't have to take the time to figure it out. lol now on to get the suspension finished.
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Aluzjunior
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts

Post by Aluzjunior »

My daughter PW has 3 speeds + reverse switch
Image

@12V is too slow, i want to upgrade to 24V, using the 3 speeds will be like 12~18~24V????
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by tbird2340 »

Need some help troubleshooting.. My Gaucho won't go when the pedal is pressed (forward or reverse)..

I tested the power at the relays and that all looks good.

I tried connecting my motors directly to the 24V off the controller and still no go..

Next would be the pedal, I'm guessing.. How can I test those 3 wires of the pedal?

Thanks
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by RedDog »

So it has been awhile, but i wired my PW jeep to the very first scematic. I retained pw shifter and used pw throttle as brake. added hall throttle, and reostat to control the speed, i also used a lighted switch to turn headlights on and off.

So i used lbd24, until it burnt up, then someone sent me a modified diagragm and I think i changed something slightly but do not recall. but it worked. I have five wires coming out of shifter and one jumper

We dug it out last month and it would not go, the relays are clicking when you select gears, but nothing else. except if i disconnect the key, and hit the brakes it will light the headlight switch wierd.

So I order a YK31 get it today, hook it up, same same. So what is latest and greatest schematic for wiring this up with components I have, I think i need to rewire to find the problem idk.
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by RedDog »

wel i got it going but do not know how loose wire somewhere. as soon as i hit reverse smoke. it still worked for awhile in high, then it failed all out.

So my question is this. IS there any advantage to having high and low? More torque for harder inclines etc? If not I will eliminate the high low adn reqwire this thing and try another yk31 and see what happens. i think I will remove the lights and potentiometer as well
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by MR_Pat »

I let the foot pedal decide fast or slow.. makes it more real car like I think... did you buy a kit or just picked up the pieces via ebay and stuff ??
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by RedDog »

I built it myself way back when this post started.

I think I have a different problem now. After buying another lbd14 and fixing all the wiring everything worked but the motors. I used my jumpers to go direct from esc to motor and nothing, so i went from battery to motor and nothing. I did same for other motor and nothing. So, it may be possable that she burnt both motors up and not the esc
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by MR_Pat »

ouch.... My youngest fried a motor in the corvette I put one of Wesley's ESC kits into with stock PW motors. ran great for two days with the oldest... youngest son has a lead foot though.
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by tbird2340 »

Can someone do me a solid? Having a problem following the diagram "without lights"..

Brake Relay:
Pin 1 - Yellow from Controller
Pin 2- Blue from Controller
Pin 3 - Connected to Pin 4
Pin 4 - Connected to Pin 3
Pin 5 - Connected to Pin 1 of Reverse Relay
Pin 6 - Connected to Pin 2 of Reverse Relay
Pin 7 - Connected to Negative of 24V??
Pin 8 - Connected to ??


Reverse Relay:
Pin 1 - Connected to Pin 5 of Brake Relay and Pin 4 of Reverse Relay
Pin 2- Connected to Pin 6 of Brake Relay and Pin 3 of Reverse Relay
Pin 3 - Connected to Pin 2 of Reverse Relay
Pin 4 - Connected to Pin 1 of Reverse Relay
Pin 5 - Connected to Neg Motors
Pin 6 - Connected to Pos Motors
Pin 7 - Connected to Shifter??
Pin 8 - Connected to ??

Basically, my main confusion is the connection of the brake/shifter wires to the 24V wires and the relays..

Thanks!
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by MR_Pat »

Make sure you look at your relays as there are numbers at each pin. this layout kind of spun my head at first too.


Pin 1 Blue from control
Pin 2 Yellow from control
Pin 3 Resistor to pin 4 on brake rlay
Pin 5 pins 1 + 4 on reverse relay
Pin 6 tp pins 2+3 on reverse relay
Pin 7 Ground to Indicator light lead from controller
Pin 8 + wire from throttle pedal supplied from + wire on indicator light

Reverse Relay
Pin 1 From Pin 5 brake relay Also connects at pin 4
Pin 2 From Pin 6 brake relay also connect to Pin 3
Pin 5 Connects to motor -
Pin 6 Connects to motor +
Pin 7 + wire from Shifter. Supplied initially from Indicator Signl from controller
Pin 8 - Wire to indicator Signal from controller

[quote="jparthum"]I'm not sure what kind of switch is in your shifter, but this should work regardless...
Image
You just need to locate two switch contacts that are open when Forward is selected, and closed when Reverse is selected - it doesn't matter which of those contact each wire connects to. Just keep in mind that full speed (24V) will also be available in Reverse. :|
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by tbird2340 »

Sorry, I should have included the diagram I had been using.. I've had my PW running for years on this I just had to replace some parts and now I have to put everything back together and want to make sure it's all correct..
unnamed.jpg
unnamed.jpg (41.08 KiB) Viewed 8828 times
Above is what I'm using and it's from a user here (not sure who because it's been a long time)..

Slightly different then the one you posted which looks easier, but I have snipped off a couple of the wires the diagram you linked because mine said not to use..

Thanks
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by MR_Pat »

I apologize i linked to the wroong one. You have the same one I was trying to link to here . Wesley from eastcoast power up uses the diagram you have with his ESC kits. pin out i put up was from the same diagram you have posted.
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by Dangd02 »

hi, can you give me the schematic using the Bosch style relays?
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by MR_Pat »

Image


Dangd02, What relays are you refering to ? are they rated for the right voltage ? How many pin ? If they are the same relays used in the EastCoast power up kit use the diagram that TBird put up.
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by Philthy »

Having an issue and hoping for some guidance... I have purchased the LBD14 controller from TNC Scooters, they sent me a YK31C, and I wired up exactly as the below diagram and nothing worked. I figured I may have just ordered the wrong controller and ordered another LBD14 controller from TNC Scooters, they again sent me a YK31C... I called them and they stated that they are the same thing and to just use the YK31C and contact their support for a RMA on the original DOA controller they shipped me. I install the new controller, and as soon as I turned the key on the wheels started spinning at full speed - the brake pedal worked, but the hall effect gas pedal did nada... I turn the key off, and double checked all wiring, all good, turn key on and now nothing...

Any thoughts..?

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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by wesleyb82 »

Heynow. For the non-responsive case I would make sure the controller and throttle wires match - red red, black black, white blue. For the runaway case the controller is bad and needs to be replaced. I have handled many of these controllers over the past few years and had a massive spike in defects which started at the end of 2016 which seems to have affected many other sellers as well unfortunately. This sudden defect rate may explain your problem, maybe not.

Anyway as a result I have not sold any of these controllers from the defective shipment and have moved away from them entirely. Since then I have been working on a new ESC setup that uses a different controller. It's a 1,000w controller that has fail-safe features so not only is the power rating more appropriate for these setups which makes them more stable than then the 500w controllers but it will also shut itself down during a detected failure. If you decide to bail on the 500w setup check out the 1,000w setup here: http://eastcoastpowerup.com/ESC_LED_Kit ... 0w_ESC_Kit
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by toycrusher »

As someone who has spent waaaaay too much on powerwheels and powerwheel parts :o ... :lol: ...

Wesley's kits and components are priced amazingly cheap. There is zero reason to try to source parts anywhere else. I'm excited about this new 1000w controller and will likely try one soon myself.
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Philthy
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by Philthy »

Thank you so much for the quick response... TNC Scooters will not warranty and told me all sales are final and I'm star fish out of luck... great customer service :roll: I give them a DO NOT SHOP rating.

I WISH I came across your kit initially... I'm so frustrated with this, that I'm going to order it now and start over :lol:
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by Jdawgu »

Wes' esc kits are good. I have just ordered a second kit for my grandson. I had to order the 1000w controller from Monsterscooterparts. The 3 500w controllers I purchased from various sources all failed within minutes on a stock wrangler. The 1000w controller is a direct plug in for Wes' kit. I will be getting one of his 1000w kits once it is ready. I only have 3 cars left to modify.

James
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by wesleyb82 »

Thank you very much for the positive mentions, coming from long time members is my highest form of compliment and it means a lot to me. My business model is simple, give people what they paid for. If I cannot do that for financial or some other reason something needs to change. When I buy from China I expect this sort of treatment which is why a lot of people like me will pay more to deal with Americans who you would expect will provide better customer support. But then you pay more to buy locally and then still get bad CS… it’s just a bummer.

Anyway like I said I reworked my ESC offering with all new parts and I’d like to share some of those findings. First the 500w controllers are under-rated for these motors, especially 775’s. The rule when picking a motor controller is to double the motor draw and get a controller that meets or exceeds that rating. Banebot 18vs (Mabuchi RS-775WC-8514) draw about 250w and there are two motors so max draw is about 1,000w. I found the 500w controllers at most outputted 35 amps which is about 850w. I have recorded the 1,000w controller I am using now outputting about 55 amps which is about 1300w. This increase in power (torque) throughput although does not make the car faster in mph, gives the car more real world speed since when the car bogs down it gets up and going again much faster. Around our track which includes a 15 foot change in elevation, the new controller is 35% faster which is significant. The new controller also has a mild soft start which reduces neck snapping starts and reduces tire wear even if the throttle pedal is mashed.

I tried to solve some problems with the old ESC setup. When the factory pedal is moved to make room for the new throttle pedal sometimes it is moved off the firewall and onto the floor where the wires can hang down and can get hung up and ripped off. As a result I am now included a metal brake pedal that mounts flush to the floor. This pedal has a reliable micro-switch which should hold up better over time. I also setup the new brake to cut off power to the controller when the brake is depressed. This will eliminate the possibility of mashing the throttle and brake then releasing the brake for instant on power which is dangerous and hard on the parts. If this scenario is attempted, the controller will detect a “high pedal” failure scenario and not allow throttle response until the throttle is first released which eliminates another unsafe instant-on scenario. The controllers fail safe capability also includes a self monitoring ability where if it detects a mosfet or similar failure that could result in a run-away it will cut off power between the controller and motors. These are safety features I have only seen in controllers that cost more than the cost of my entire kit. The next optional but now standard feature is a remote kill switch. The trigger has one big button and could not be simpler and comes with a red lanyard to wear around the neck. Range for us has been 200+ feet and the receiver will activate the brake while the button is pressed and release the brake once the button is released. The receivers are programmable so you can stop multiple cars with one remote or multiple remotes can stop the car(s). Finally the only holdover from the old system was the reverse beeper which is a reminder of the drive direction which prevents the old look this way go that way and run over your sister scenario. I think these solutions solve most of the problems we have all seen many times where new riders ride off out of control while everyone chases them, look one way go the other, brake drop take off, brake pedal failure from wires or internal switch, key on while throttle down take off.

Now the next big challenge was getting parts to handle the average 35 amps, 55 amps max throughput. All the old parts had to go. I am using 12awg high strand tinned copped silicone wire for the relays which is very flexible, corrosion resistant and can handle 55 amps @ 20c. Then I am using American made nylon terminals which tolerate high temperatures and are partially transparent so crimp inspection is possible. The entire system can be assembled with a stripper/crimper – no soldering required. Relays are 40 amps, had to be special ordered for our application. For bringing all connections together I am using a 12P power block with crimp spade connectors and color coded wires. This should make assembly easier with crimp only connections, help identify wires and connections by color but more importantly make expanding and diagnosing issues much easier. Now to expand you simply tap into the power block which could support accessories like fully functional LEDs (headlight, reverse and brake lights), etc. You could also diagnose issues much easier since all junctions are exposed on the power block. I plan on creating a troubleshooting guide that will ask for continuity and voltage measurements on certain terminals which should direct installers to the problem quickly. The kits now also include a small step down and step up which provide constant 12v and 24v even during voltage sag. This way the critical system parts like brake relay and remote kill switch always have the power they need to operate regardless of the state of the batteries. These included parts can also power about 20w of 12v accessories which is a basic LED set (4x3w= 12w). If there is a higher 12v demand a larger 3/5a 36/60w step down can be added to the power block to run larger accessories. These power regulators also allow the use of any battery voltage from 12 to 24. With a single 12v battery all the system parts still get the voltage they require so everything will still work properly but 100% full throttle will match the battery voltage so 12/18/24v will be 1/1.5/2x of 12v factory speed. The controller can actually handle up to 36v with a different set of voltage regulators.

After many years at a stable job messing around with the store on the side just to pay for my hobby I decided to follow my dream, quit my job and am now working on my store full time. The new kit has 60 parts and I have spent at least a day on each part researching the available options and considering the best option to make an easy to install reliable system then built module after module testing them along the way. After all of that unpaid time I am now rolling out my ESC baby with my fingers crossed, I really hope anyone who gives us a shot is happy and I will do everything I can to ensure that happens. Anyway I appreciate the positive comments, that really means a lot to me and I hope that the information here might be useful to someone during their next build. If anyone has any comments fell free to let me know
Eastcoast PowerUp | 24v ESC Kits & Other Addons | http://www.eastcoastpowerup.com
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by tbird2340 »

I've been through about 5 YK31's through my years on my (2) Gauch Grande's.. I don't want to buy a full kit from Wesley because I have everything except the controller.. If I was just starting out I would definitely go that route..

Can anyone recommend where I can get a reliable controller that will have the same functionality as what I have now?

Thanks
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Wezaa
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by Wezaa »

Hi, I don't know how active this thread still is. I made a post here viewtopic.php?t=21336
Looking to convert my sons ride-on.

Unfortunately it is a cheap Chinese knock off and not an actual power wheels. As I have stated in the linked post, it is 12v and I made it 24v but burned out the controller. I want to replace the controller with a 24v alternative but have no idea how I would connect it to one the scooter controllers I have seen on here.

Any advice would be great, if you need any additional info please let me know.
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by chart2006 »

The LBD14 is a 24v 500 watt controller which means you'll most likely be moving up to the 775 motors. If that's the case you're doing a disservice by using the LBD14. When I modded my sons F150 Raptor by upgrading the motors to the 775s I wanted to make sure they weren't going to be throttled. I ended up using the SPD-241000 from www.electricscooterparts.com. It's a 24v 1000 watt controller and it's nice. They also have a 1200 watt controller however you lose the extra features like key switch, battery charger, brake lights, and power lights.
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by chotamaz »

Hello I am looking to upgrade my gaucho superpower 1st gen to 36v with 36v 1000w esc. can I use this diagram here and mainn question is what spec of DPDT relays do I need as I am not able to find them here in UK. thanks all
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Re: LBD-14 24v Scooter Controller Full Schematics and Parts list

Post by civicturbo »

chart2006 wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:37 am The LBD14 is a 24v 500 watt controller which means you'll most likely be moving up to the 775 motors. If that's the case you're doing a disservice by using the LBD14. When I modded my sons F150 Raptor by upgrading the motors to the 775s I wanted to make sure they weren't going to be throttled. I ended up using the SPD-241000 from www.electricscooterparts.com. It's a 24v 1000 watt controller and it's nice. They also have a 1200 watt controller however you lose the extra features like key switch, battery charger, brake lights, and power lights.
I'm so glad I found your post, I almost bought a LBD14 or two for my kids F-150 w/775 motors upgrade. I don't really trust that a 500 watt controller can handle two 775's (especially on a truck w/two riders) because they can draw an awful lot of current, I was thinking of doing 2 lbd14's, I researched how you connect one hall effect pedal to two controllers but I really felt a good single 1000+ watt controller would be the better route to go. I think I'll order that same model SPD-241000 from www.electricscooterparts.com.
Blue Ford F-150 upgraded with ML Toys Matched pair of 775 performance motors w/metal collar mounting kits, High speed racing grease, Axel thrust bearings, Dual motor temp gauge, two 45Ah 12v SLA batteries

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