kid trax viper

[sirironduke]

with my jeep nearing compleation i started diving into my viper. ( i know its not a powerwheels brand)
its going to be another R/C, but unlike my jeep im going for a fast one. Since it has a metal frame i have more options available. my plans are a roof, lights, repaint, rubber wheels, possible suspention, and speed. :twisted:
i have purchased a scooter motor, chain and gear ring from johnny1333 that i will be using for the drive. I have yet to deside to have both rear wheels drive, or just one. for batterys i plan on using 2x 12V 18Ah sla batterys, or simmiler.

heres what i had to work with
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s157 ... 0_0005.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s157 ... 0_0003.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s157 ... 0_0004.jpg


a little damage on the front. looks like they hit something pretty hard
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s157 ... 0_0011.jpg

heres a comparison with the PW jeep red and KT red
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s157 ... 0_0007.jpg

and heres the frame thats going to be both nice to work with and a curse
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s157 ... 0_0028.jpg

heres a sketchup rendering of what im going to do to the rear of the frame to fit the new wheels
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s157 ... ecurve.jpg

[sirironduke]

had the rear section of the frame heated and bent for more clearance for the rear axle. and had the old axle tube welded in the frame for support. will take pictures tonight.

[madmaxdecals]

Sound awesome...can't wait to see the frame

[Jornum1]

looks like a cool project, cant wait to see what you come up with.

BTW instead of copying just the url for the pics. If you copy the img code(photobucket supplies the link on the right of the pic), and just paste that in the pics will show up right on the page.

[sirironduke]

i have tryed to copy the image code, but due to the size of thie pictures it cuts them in half.
and i took pix of the frame, just need to upload them

[Jornum1]

yeah I have that problem too. I always have to resize my pics to 640x480. Not sure why this board is set up like that.

[sirironduke]

well heres the pics. you can see i didnt bent it much, just enough to allow the placement of the axle. about 2 inches.

[Jornum1]

I'd be a little afraid of the integrity of those bends now. I know its locked down to the body, but you may want to reinforce those a little. If you dont have a welder, maybe you can even bolt in some kind of bracket?
Just a suggestion, not trying to knock you. I dont want to see you do all that work and have the frame fail.

[sirironduke]

yea i may reinforce them. i did put some weight on it .they seem strong and where tough to bend even heated.

[Jornum1]

Maybe you would be good. I just noticed it looked very similar to my C5r. And the riders weight sits right on that bend, so I would think that would be a weak point. Knowing how kids are they like to climb in and out and jump on things!
I am interested in what you are going to do because I had similar plans for my c5r. I have a 500w scooter that I salvaged the motor out of. Keep the gaucho as the off road beast and the c5r as the speed demon.

[sirironduke]

i too noticed the frames are simmiler. i actualy wanted a corvette. if i was to have a kid use it then i wouldnt bend anything. id cut weld and replace. being this is going to be strictly R/C, the only real weight it has to carry is the batterys.

[Jornum1]

oh no passenger? That makes a big difference. enough said ;-)

[sirironduke]

i recently got the wheels i ordered from surplus center so i took some pictures of most of the parts i have and a few mock ups.


and the new headlights i ordered from kid trax


heres me holding the rear wheels about where i will be installing them. youl see where ill be cutting the inner body to fit them



and the front. wrong wheels but same size for compairison


heres the rear wheels on the stock axle in the stock location incase someone wants to do something simmiler for use with kids. its a little wide for my liking but im making a R/C. and with kids you want a little more play room.

[madmaxdecals]

Looking good so far!

[sirironduke]

ok i havent posted here for a little bit so , heres an update. wheel wells have been trimmed for the wheels in the rear.
front wheels are ordered. rear shaft is beginning to come together. im waiting on welding on the hub. ive cut the front of the frame and im turning the sections i cut off into control arms. i plan on using the stock spindles with an upgrade to 3/4" shaft. LED lights have been ordered as well and will take 3-4 weeks to get here from china =/
the hinge idea i had for the front has been scratched in favor of some flat steel sides ill be attaching to the cut off sections. it will give me better and stronger control and longer wear resistance.

on a side note, this way can also be used with kids. ill be using light springs as low weight. for kids id go heavyer springs

for the rear ill most likely be using pcv. it should be more than strong enough for what im doing.
Again for kids i would use the stock axle and location. the wheels fit but stick out a small amount.
and now the proof

[sirironduke]

well after mocking it up i found i cant drop the front the 2" i want. theres enough room for the suspention going strait but not in a turn. to ill go up to a 1" drop and clearance a little bit on the headlight bucket. and i narrowed the track by 3/4" to help with the wider wheels.
ill have to upgrade the stock spindles to 3/4" shaft, will most likley use allthread and locknuts. unless i can find reducer bearings.
also set up the rear on my bench to play with the controller , motor, straighten the gear ring ect. the sygen controller works like a dream. Id recomend it to anyone wanting to do a R/C or motor upgrade. has built in brakeing system, so can be set up with kids easy.
heres some more pix on the progress
got the hub welded up. now i can clamp it anywhere on the shaft






i turned the front body mount 90 degrees and shaved a little bit to fit between the arms on the suspention and act as a bump stop.


i assembled the front control arms with bolts and bushings. after it all works out ill have the control arms welded up.





and here it is on the car. you can see the bumpstop/body mount working

[madmaxdecals]

Looks good :D

[sirironduke]

well after setting up the rear end i desided i needed to remove more plastic. so instead of having holes all over, i just cut out the whole rear section behind the shifters wall

and for the front, since im using the stock spindles i had some spacers made to fit the front wheels.
i upgraded them with bearings and had the inside hub shaved down to the wheel.




and heres the car sitting on its own. no support boxes just its wheels. no shocks on the front yet and the carpet tention is holding the suspention up in the front.


my servo, chain, shocks and batterys have come in. for those that have kept track i have all the big stuff to get it rollin.
toss in a good $40 in nuts and bolts and i should have it moving

[sirironduke]

well i have the rear end hung , axle built and motor mount placed. ill have 2 springs on the motor keeping the chain tight. i didnt want to recess the motor in the floor by 3/4" of an inch so ill use the springs to keep things in check. since i moved the motor way back ( mid mounted) i ordered some new chain. still waiting on the correct rear shock to come in.
for the rear i trimmed a couple of T sections and slid in a heated bronze bushing.

the front, is 95% built. i still have to make the tie rod horn and connect it to my servo city gearbox.

the shocks are in and are running on air. i have 100psi in them now, seems to work for the moment being the car is empty. they can handle 220psi. i made a cross member/shock tower out of pvc , same as the rear, light and strong for my application.
the front shocks are 7/8" with a 2" stroke with an internal spring.

and heres the pictures







and here the front end under the hood

[sirironduke]

well i got the correct shock for the rear and set it up. the car now sits on its own. about 100psi in the front and 80 in the rear.
after setting up and testing in my basement i found that the pvc holds up very well. so well infact that its bending my steel pivot mounts for the rear. and turf tires dont like to get traction on concrete or carpet. at least one wheel drive and 24v, not sure about posi.




first i had a spring set up on the motor to keep the chain tight. that didnt work so well. the motor tourques over hard enough to pull up on 2 heavy duty springs. so i went with a firm mount.


here, if you look hard enough youl see the bend bracket right next to the motor. after moving it just a few times under power it has bent it about 1/4". ill be replacing it with thicker ones and doubling them up.



and heres what the turf tires do on 24v

[madmaxdecals]

Sweet skid marks...haha

[sirironduke]

well after dragging the viper outside and running its first run, it had a few issues. 1st issue was it broke the chain right out. well more like tear apart the masterlink. after replacing it i got it to move under its own power more than a few feet. i have come to realize that one wheel drive is not the way to go with a motor that put out that much torque. weather at a full stop or rolling slowly, if i gun the throttle it squirls all over the street. if i hit the brakes to hard, same thing. if i slam on the brakes and hit it full throttle, i get this

^ sheared drive wheel bolts. ive replaced them with alloy bolts and will be locking both wheels next run. ( old ones where mild steel)

after its run i noticed that the rear shock mount was pushing on the body enough to begin to cause stress cracks. so i tore it apart and remounted it in a slightl different way. more pvc and a bit stronger. best part is causes no stress on the body

i went from this

to this

also on its test run i managed to hit the same ditch that rolled my jeep on its first run. effectivly slamming one front wheel stripping nylon teeth off of th servo gearbox. new metal ones are ordered.

also while its down for repair, i did a little body work. here youl see i planed down the mirror mounts. they will be filled in later

and began the lights



and if you look close at that last pic, youl see the vipers "ignition" switch relocated in the grill. that switches on/off the electrinics and charging circut. when car is on charging is off, and vice versa. and the 2 black dots with silver rings are the air valves fore the front shocks. more lights planned just not installed yet.

[madmaxdecals]

Sweet....it's coming along nicely

[ForrestOutman]

Wow, you have some guts and know how! Those are some major overhauls, I just bought a kidtrax viper, PW escalade, and PW 4wheeler for my 3yr old son. He already had a PW jeep. I wanted to see what an members have done with the viper to get ideas as this will be my first mod and found this monster you are building! Any recommendations on lights (I was thinking head, tail, and fog) parts, suppliers, and simple breakdown would be nice.

Since you obviously know what you're doing I might as well ask about the factory gears motors since you have taken them out you probably have looked them over good. Are they weak/strong? Can the motors handle 24v? Is the gearbox complex inside or simple? I figured it's a good thing to know what I'm getting into. The car right now isn't switching between low/high and no reverse so I'm wonder whats up if the previous owner stripped them or not, but it's odd because it still runs...just not changing gears. I took apart the shifter assembly and it's a simple switch...though the center position (low gear) has no contacts so I assume it's function is to run at half power till switched into high gear completing the circuit that allows full power and the reverse doesn't change power but reverses polarity?

I'm a newbie to this, but my son LOVES cars and I want to give him a car that will be fun for years.

Also, I'm all ears about any mods you would recommend. I definitely want to get more speed he has had this PW jeep for a year at 5mph so a little faster is no issue he understands steering so 24v seems to be what most are doing.

Love to see the progress of an idea into a reality, the world could use more dreamers and innovators.

[sirironduke]

thanks for the compliment. its giving me fits at the moment but its a fun project.

ive played with the stock gearboxes, it can take 18volts easy. but wouldnt recomend 24 volts. either way it will require rewireing the car. the circuit board cant handle over volts and is most likely the reason you cant change gears. the relay might have popped. its a very poor placement if you ask me. its in a nice protecting pocket..... that has no drain.
if your hard set on 24volts i would use either a soft start circuit available from some of the members here. or use a 24volt cordless drill switch for the throttle, either rewire the existing shifter or get one from say a jeep, and have at least heat sinks on the motors. cooling fan would help. also at 24volts be prepared to replace the gearboxes.

but just rewireing the car PW style will get you more speed, and 18volts is a easy mod. the only issue will be the dash, the lights and battery guage is 12volts. the radio takes its own batterys.
as for head lights, i bought LED's from china through eBay. they prewired for 12volts. i drilled a few well placed holes in the crome part of the headlight and hot glued the leds in. i am also using a radio shack kit built power supply to power my lights, found here
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... e=Velleman
tail lights is a different story. the factory ones are stickers so theres not realy an easy way to make them light up. im still trying different things till i find something i like.

[chadc8430]

I have a viper as that I just picked up, but it seems to have short in the ignition switch/key. It will only work while holding the key in. Is there anyway to replace/fix this?