Lifted Jeep w/ Dual ESC/ESC ByPass/BaneBots/21Ts

sall · Post by **sall** » Thu May 29, 2014 1:57 pm

I acquired a Barbie Cruisin' Tunes Jeep from a neighbor in overall good working condition but the body was faded from the sun. I wanted to transform it in to something more suitable for my two year old little fella. I do not have many pictures of the teardown but you all know all about that. I ended up giving it a simple 'safety' orange and black paint job! It looks like this as of now! Well before a couple of mods...

Deleted the windshield screen, Barbie radio and roll bar Barbie cover. Shot the wheel covers/hub caps with 'flat aluminum' to match the steering wheel and break up the orange black. I coated the wheels with roll on truck bed coating and they are holding up well. It is only ran in the grass at this point!

I have added a pair of LED headlights and tail lights at this point. Along with a 12v/15w 6 tone siren on a momentary push button.

Headlights:

Tails:

Siren/Push Button:

I have also installed a radio in the Barbie stereo bezel. Currently sourcing a small amp and speakers.

There are a few other mods planned which are:

*Wireless Kill Switch
*Battery Voltage Display
*Amber Front Markers/Fogs
*Back-up Alarm
*Reverse Lamps
*Interior Lamps
*Underbody Lighting
*SPST Keyed Ignition
*Motor Heatsinks(which ones)?

Probably more! This is my first build and he is currently driving it with the aid of of the bar across the steering wheel. More leverage and carrying over technique from his 12v Mini Quad.

Thanks for looking. Any advice, tips, questions, insight... let me know!! These things are fun and already itching to start the Ninja? Quad.

sall · Post by **sall** » Fri May 30, 2014 4:05 pm

I added the amber markers/fogs today to the lower front bumper flanking the license plate. I used some of the common 3W eagle eyes.

Still waiting on some SPST switches to permanently wire everything. Any recommendation for LEDs in the stock sticker location?

sall · Post by **sall** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:43 pm

Some updates...

Underbody Lighting:

Switches installed in dash piece w/ radio.

Headlamp Constant/Strobe Circuit(Astable 555):

I also installed a back-up alarm. Still need to design, etch, populate a PCB for the wig-wags. Then I can do final wiring of the switches. Also wire two LED strips for footwell lighting. Nabbed some skateboard anti-skid adhesive material for floormats/traction.

Open to any comments/suggestions!!

sall · Post by **sall** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:08 pm

Not one single comment? Oh man!

Got everything wired up the other day and everything has been running smoothly since. Here is the back of the radio bezel and the brains of the whole lighting operation.

Very short video of headlamps strobing and front markers/fog wig-wag/flip-flopping!

Cut and installed the 'floor mats' as well as added a piece of the material to each running board. Reverse lamps in now too accompany the back-up beeper. Will get some more pictures and video in due time!

Remaining items to be installed are the decals of his choice, battery volt meter and remote kill switch. :D Stereo wired in eventually. Then onto a Kawasaki Ninja Quad project :D

mydudrevo · Post by **mydudrevo** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:18 am

Man that jeep looks awesome great job!

Sent from my iPhone using My Thumbs

hkayssi · Post by **hkayssi** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:27 am

I love the orange color that you used it looks very nice :D

sall · Post by **sall** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:15 am

Thanks guys! The orange is Krylon Fusion Safety Orange. Aside wiring in the remote kill switch and key switch when they arrive and applying decals it will be finished! Radio later... It was was pretty fun for being my first power wheel to modify a bit. The little guy is taking to them quite them from the mini quad transition!

Quinc · Post by **Quinc** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:03 pm

Great thread! Very helpful!

sall · Post by **sall** » Thu May 07, 2015 2:18 pm

Thanks. It was fun for my first PW modding experience.

This is about to get a 24V ESC and a lift kit. Slowest in the fleet right now. Then probably upgrade it to the microcontroller setup I made for the Gaucho instead of the 555 timers.

toycrusher · Post by **toycrusher** » Thu May 07, 2015 2:33 pm

I missed the video you had of the lights. What is your home-built strobe controller doing? How many lights is it connected to?

sall · Post by **sall** » Thu May 07, 2015 3:08 pm

toycrusher wrote:I missed the video you had of the lights. What is your home-built strobe controller doing? How many lights is it connected to?

Video should be working now. It is nothing special. The strobing was on the headlights only. Wig/wag- Flip/flop on the park/fog and rear tails. Speed adjustable for each function via pots. Slowed down in these vids for the camera to capture. The uC controller is much better. For whatever reason many of my pics are missing from the couple builds I have done. Something must have happened to them when imgur switched from paying for pro to free. :?

Coopz · Post by **Coopz** » Fri May 08, 2015 3:50 am

nice work mate!

sall · Post by **sall** » Tue May 19, 2015 9:30 pm

Not too much excitement going on here.

Partial Stand-alone Harness:

Accelerator Relocated for Brake @ Hall Effect Pedal Mounted:

Hoping to etch and populate PCB for uC battery saver and light control module tomorrow. Then get everything wired back up. Waiting for lift kit and 14" tires to arrive!

sall · Post by **sall** » Sun May 24, 2015 4:18 pm

How it sits as of today. Lift installed. Just waiting for a DPDT relay to arrive to get the ESC and microncontroller wired up.

sall · Post by **sall** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:39 pm

I have two 24V 500W YK31C ESCs and a pair of #7 21T gearboxes with BaneBots mounted to drop into this jeep for another upgrade. Will one '500W' ESC per BaneBot be sufficient or shall I still consider an ESC bypass?

toycrusher · Post by **toycrusher** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:53 am

Since electrical setups are your thing, I would recommend a "voltage comparator" monitoring the foot pedal designed to trigger the relays and bypass the ESCs when it sees 4.5v WOT.

sall · Post by **sall** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:54 am

ToyCrusher, I have the voltage comparator setup working on the bench. So it is not a hassle to add that feature. Just will take an extra DPDT relay per controller setup. Perhaps review what I cobbled together here a few minutes at a time today. No issue in connecting ESC pedal wires together? I saw you mentioned this in the 36v thread build. Just wanted to verify.

sall · Post by **sall** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:42 pm

Also, what amp relays would be recommended here with the banebots?

toycrusher · Post by **toycrusher** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:22 am

Sorry I missed it till now. Diagram looks perfect. Since the motors are independent, 30 amp relays should be more than enough. Once you get this ride up and running I would like to put your diagram in the faq

sall · Post by **sall** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:55 pm

toycrusher wrote:Sorry I missed it till now. Diagram looks perfect. Since the motors are independent, 30 amp relays should be more than enough. Once you get this ride up and running I would like to put your diagram in the faq

No problem. I am in no hurry. Will have to order a few relays before I can get everything installed.

All of our ESC ride ons include the main/fail safe relay and 'optional' brake. The brakes do get used quite a bit. However, I'd like to do a 'floating' pedal for something different. Make it a bit more realistic and force use of the brake. Any ideas on how to fool ESC? I thought to take the 5v source and knock it down to whatever 0.5-1.0v with a pot and feed that into the ESC throttle circuit to keep it a slow crawl. Perhaps I will give that a try this evening.

One other idea. Considering 36v boost via momentary steering wheel push button only when ESC WOT is bypassed. I know it is doable. How will the banebots handle it? I'm not quite sure the factory lifted jeep is the best choice for it. :|

toycrusher · Post by **toycrusher** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:55 am

Variable braking? Hall effect pedal and PWM control of a big resistor, or just a 10 ga wire loop since the speed will be bled via the PWM...

Sounds like some serious reverse engineering :lol:

As far as 36v on Banebots, I've hear they cook at 30v. I only have one ride on Banebots and it's 24v direct (well, turbo-timed), the others are stock pw motors or 24v Peg motors pushed to 36v.

sall · Post by **sall** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:49 pm

Well, what I mean is if the ride on is keyed on and either the shifter is not in N/P or the brake is not pressed the ride on will creep along. Fast enough where the brake pedal must be used or shifter in park/neutral for the ride on to be at complete stop. Slow enough to not cause any accidents if forgetting about it when turning on. Though failsafes can be built in such as the shifter position, etc.

I was able to simulate this with a 5k pot wired from the throttle 5v to the throttle return(labeled ZP on the controller.) I guess it is reverse of using the pot at the speed limiter. Will have have to fine tune the rolling speed once it is on the ground and rider inside.

toycrusher · Post by **toycrusher** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:05 pm

sall wrote:Well, what I mean is if the ride on is keyed on and either the shifter is not in N/P or the brake is not pressed the ride on will creep along. Fast enough where the brake pedal must be used or shifter in park/neutral for the ride on to be at complete stop. Slow enough to not cause any accidents if forgetting about it when turning on. Though failsafes can be built in such as the shifter position, etc.

I was able to simulate this with a 5k pot wired from the throttle 5v to the throttle return(labeled ZP on the controller.) I guess it is reverse of using the pot at the speed limiter. Will have have to fine tune the rolling speed once it is on the ground and rider inside.

I gotcha, could you just rig the gas pedal travel so it never gets down to 0 volts (.5v, whatever "no throttle" is)?

sall · Post by **sall** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:27 pm

Right. According to my DMM at 1.1V at the throttle return I start to get motor activity. So, I used the 5k pot to simulate that. I'll just have to see what voltage at the throttle return is the sweet spot for just rolling once the wheels are on the ground and his weight is in the rideon. Then set pot accordingly or swap out for static set resistor for each controller.

I figure to just find pins on the stock shifter switches that only have continuity when it is in the middle(stock low) position so that it also activates the brake relay. That position will be the park/neutral position.

So, forget the braking resistors and use a jumper wire?

toycrusher · Post by **toycrusher** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:28 pm

So, forget the braking resistors and use a jumper wire?

Not exactly, a jumper wire will throw the brakes on solid. The resistor softens the braking force. If you can find the right sized resistor, you are good. I had trouble getting one that did much of anything so I just run a jumper wire but it's not exactly helpful for gearbox life :?

sall · Post by **sall** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:20 pm

Just to verify with toycrusher, connecting the ESC throttle wires in parallels works with no ill effects?

Build is progressing...

toycrusher · Post by **toycrusher** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:35 am

sall wrote:Just to verify with toycrusher, connecting the ESC throttle wires in parallels works with no ill effects?

Build is progressing...

I had the same doubts, but it works. I think it's because it's a hall effect sensor. If the throttle was a pot instead there might be some distortion in resistance readings

taz11 · Post by **taz11** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:49 am

Yes, the parallel throttle is not a problem. I confirmed that with TNC scooters a few years back. The one issue that I have noticed from personal experience is that sometimes the controllers still do not sync perfectly. One may start sooner and apply more power causing higher load on that motor.

toycrusher · Post by **toycrusher** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:47 am

taz11 wrote:Yes, the parallel throttle is not a problem. I confirmed that with TNC scooters a few years back. The one issue that I have noticed from personal experience is that sometimes the controllers still do not sync perfectly. One may start sooner and apply more power causing higher load on that motor.

As I think about it, I'm probably experiencing the same issue. My Superpower occasionally spins out one tire in grass or, unfortunately, slips a tooth when on pavement. It does lift the front end when my son hits the gas hard so that probably doesn't help out the gearbox. :?

sall · Post by **sall** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:10 am

That was a concern I had when you said you were using dual controllers in your build crusher if you remember. The controllers seem to very well in tune with each other when I tested some things on the bench.

taz11 · Post by **taz11** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:27 am

I'm thinking you could put a pot inline between the pedal and each controller. Dial down one or the other to better sync them.

toycrusher · Post by **toycrusher** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:03 am

taz11 wrote:I'm thinking you could put a pot inline between the pedal and each controller. Dial down one or the other to better sync them.

Might work. It doesn't seem to be consistent enough or maybe I can't keep track of which side spins out. :? I honestly thought I had a connection issue that I just couldn't find. :x

taz11 · Post by **taz11** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:20 pm

Mine is consistently the same controller. I am not sure if it is the controller or the fact that one motor spins backwards and requires more juice to overcome the timing difference.

sall · Post by **sall** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:32 pm

Yeah you can use a pot on the throttle connections for many different purposes. I will do some testing when I get the chance. I still need to do some modifications to each controller and get rid of some clutter from them.

sall · Post by **sall** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:16 pm

As for the 'coast' setting without being on throttle does something around 4v to the motors sound right? On a 12v build low is in a perfect situation 6v to each motor. That is supposedly 2mph. So, a good voltage to the motors for a slow crawl about 4v?

toycrusher · Post by **toycrusher** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:47 pm

sall wrote:As for the 'coast' setting without being on throttle does something around 4v to the motors sound right? On a 12v build low is in a perfect situation 6v to each motor. That is supposedly 2mph. So, a good voltage to the motors for a slow crawl about 4v?

I think getting it to start moving may be the issue. Perhaps you can program it to "blip" 6v+ for a 1/2 second to get it moving before dropping down to a 3-4v setting?

sall · Post by **sall** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:16 pm

I will just drill hole in each ESC enclosure and mount a pot. Dial each motor accordingly and see what works... or doesn't work.

toycrusher · Post by **toycrusher** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:33 pm

(Cue space exploration music) "boldly going where no modder has gone before..." :D :lol:

sall · Post by **sall** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:44 pm

Here is how I did the 'floating' pedal. I don't know what to call it? Only showing one ESC but simply parallel the three pedal wires. I used the diode to prevent backfeed to the pedal. I do not know how sensitive they are. So there is a 0.3V voltage drop. across the diode. This just means the pedal won't max out the ESC, but the bypass will kick in anyways. Again this untested as of now other than success on the bench.

R1: 5k Pot
D1: 1N4148

sall · Post by **sall** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:54 pm

Will throw up a diagram of the FWD, Park/Neutral, RVS shifter configuration when I get a chance.

I am wondering if 10 gauge OFC main wiring is enough for this setup. I do have some larger wire but connecting to the battery is the issue. Likely directly soldering to battery tabs.

toycrusher · Post by **toycrusher** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:31 pm

sall wrote:Will throw up a diagram of the FWD, Park/Neutral, RVS shifter configuration when I get a chance.

I am wondering if 10 gauge OFC main wiring is enough for this setup. I do have some larger wire but connecting to the battery is the issue. Likely directly soldering to battery tabs.

10 Gauge wire at 24v, pushing 40 amps is good for up to about 12' length. You won't have any problems.

sall · Post by **sall** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:21 pm

Shifter Diagram.

A good byproduct of this setup is that when going from forward to reverse the motors will always be braked. Even if only for a split second.