Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

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toycrusher
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Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

Post by toycrusher »

2014-12-21 17.33.03.jpg
So, yeah, stock lasted somewhere between 48 and 72 hours... :roll:

Image

I settled on a happy medium between mild stock and wild. Stock look but 4x4 underneath.

To be fair, I can't claim complete credit for this one, I had a helper... ;)
20131124_152903m.jpg
All my 3b's were super-6 so I went with a pair of 3a's instead. I know I could have swapped motors between them, but it was cold and I just wanted to get it going! :D

Install was easy, just ground off the tabs on the spindles and slid the 3a's on. Had some extra wheel drivers from some lil-jeeps and they fit. I wanted to keep it stock looking, the original tires fit but the spindles weren't long enough for the hub caps. :(
20131124_173141m.jpg
I rewired from the rear MF gearboxes up. I wanted to keep them since I hear they are tough and have good torque.
20131124_182608m.jpg
I decided to stick with 6v batteries for this one. I spliced back into the original harness from the batteries. I ran the original leads headed towards the motor to the terminal strip and then ran from there to all four motors. I mounted some circuit breakers on the firewall. I can easily upgrade to 18v later.
20131124_192713m.jpg
And here it is rolling.
20131124_193654m.jpg
The lack of front hubcaps was really really killing me :evil: so I put them on top of the bushing and cap nut and attached them with a couple tiny screws :)
20131124_194728m.jpg
Last edited by toycrusher on Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv

Post by toycrusher »

Now for the problems and questions :x

Does anyone have a link to a diagram for the original wiring harness? One circuit breaker keeps tripping immediately and I'm not sure why. It trips regardless of high/low and fwd/rev switch positions. The Jeep moves normally with the other 6v battery powering it, reverse only works if other switch is in low. Any ideas?

Now question time. My brain hasn't been functioning. What happens if I replace one 6v battery with a 12v battery for 18v? In "high" series mode I get the 18v I want, but what happens when the batteries and in "low" parallel mode? Does the 12v battery kill the 6v? Or vice versa? Do I get a happy medium of 9v? :?
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv

Post by taz11 »

You want to hook a 3rd 6v to the lock-out connector under the dash for 18v (see FAQ)

12v and a 6v will fry it....something.
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv

Post by taz11 »

It looks like (in your pic) you have your battery leads crossed. Should be black/white to one and orange/blue to the other.
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv

Post by toycrusher »

Nice catch on my battery hookups! I checked it like 5 times already and even after you pointed it out I still kept getting lost tracing the wires in my pic :oops:

I'll swap it around when I get home and see if that fixes it. If not, I found the Faq so I can do some more wire tracing. Thanks
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv

Post by toycrusher »

You were spot on! I swapped grounds around and she's happy again :D
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv

Post by toycrusher »

20131201_164016m.jpg
Finally got to play in the mud! :D Did quite well considering it has absolutely no tread. Typical kids, I couldn't any cooperation from him to go in the really deep stuff, but the lighter slick mess that gets his regular rides stuck it went through without much trouble.

On a side note, the combo is quite gutless in heavy grass. Bogs bad. I don't know if the difference in gear ratio is killing it, if the MF motors are as low in torque as the 3A's, or if i'm losing amperage through a switch somewhere :(
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv

Post by toycrusher »

Had a recent good rain and the kids took 'er for a spin again. Amazing what 4x4 can do, even with lousy tires. My sons 24v polaris was having a tough time in the thick goo but this little jeep just motored through. :D
2014-11-09 16.12.jpg
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv

Post by wesleyb82 »

Cool. Do you have a video?
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv

Post by toycrusher »

wesleyb82 wrote:Cool. Do you have a video?
One of these days I'll figure out how to use youtube... :oops:
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv

Post by MattyGNC »

Looks good, seems like your kids love it! I can't wait to get my bigfoot out in the mud and snow 8-)
Last edited by MattyGNC on Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

Post by toycrusher »

So after a few weeks of mud dogging the jeep it quits. Doesn't event try to do anything. I start checking things and realize BOTH rear gearboxes are locked! :o :x Off come the wheels and I begin to realize how lousy the Metal Frame gearboxes are :x For some reason powerwheels thought it would be a good idea for the final gear to rub the housing ALL the way around! Tons of resistance. It also makes it especially susceptible to clay getting into the boxes and hardening to near-concrete.
2014-12-21 15.26.58.jpg
2014-12-21 15.27.00.jpg
So I spend some time cleaning up the gearboxes and re-greasing them. I also notice I have plastic pinions and then gears are getting pretty worn and thin. Fortunately I was able to simply turn them around to reset the pinion life (sorta anyways :? :lol: )
2014-12-21 16.32.53.jpg
Of course, now that I have it torn down, I can't just put it back EXACTLY the way it was! That would be crazy! :roll:
I had some Suzuki Quad wheels (my favorite for sure!) laying around so this was the perfect application for them. Stock wheel drivers wouldn't work, Mustang wheel drivers were too short, and standard Jeep wheel drivers were too long, so I took the standard jeep wheel drivers and shaved them down about a 1/2" and that took care of it!
2014-12-21 16.22.14.jpg
Now I needed to move up to the front axle. I had been running 6v 3a Gearboxes (not super-6), and believe it or not, they had been handling 24v without a problem this whole time! I had previously bought some MF #3 boxes with the 700-series motors from another member so I figured this was a perfect time to put them in. They just barely clear the firewall while turning but just barely is good enough for me :D . I did run into a couple small problems, turns out not all MF gearboxes were the same. I have 12t's in the back and 13t's up front. I'm going to have to source a matching set. Also, the front spindles were shorter than the back. I used Mustang drivers and am just going to have to deal with a little tire-to-gearbox rub.

After all this, got it back together, and it still didn't run :evil: Found problems with the original breaker under the throttle pedal. Removed it (I have two breakers, one per battery under the hood) and I got part of the system working, 12v on one battery. I couldn't get the other half working for 24v and I ran out of daylight so I'm not yet sure where my problem is.

Anyway, it's working mostly. I need to trim the back side of the front fenders for wheel clearance and steering got A WHOLE LOT tougher with the wider tires! I'm not yet sure how I'm going to improve that. Oh well, what would we do without projects? :lol:
2014-12-21 17.33.11.jpg
2014-12-21 17.33.03.jpg
2014-12-21 17.32.56.jpg
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

Post by toycrusher »

Finally got around to trimming my fenders. "minor massaging" turned into major hack job! :o Didn't think I was going to have to cut quite that much to make it turn, but it's done. Now I just have to figure out my electrical gremlin. Switching from 12v to 24v now makes almost no difference. I've changed my switches and everything looks clean but the performance is definitely not where it should be. I think I'll just rewire with a pair of SPDT relays, the gas pedal circuit will travel through my shift switch. When the pedal is pressed power will trigger either the fwd or reverse relay depending on shift switch position.
2015-01-11 15.10.00.jpg
2015-01-11 15.09.57.jpg
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

Post by toycrusher »

So I did my wiring mod and swapped to matching 13t gearboxes courtesy of Taz. All I can say is... HOLY SMOKES! :shock: :shock: :shock:

With full clean amperage to the motors they really pull! At 12v it throws my boy back when he hits the gas, at 24v, well, it can't be doing anything good to the vertebrae in his neck! :?

New problems, gearbox life is sure to short lived with the acceleration hits and the instant braking of four motors and no resistor. The other, bigger issue, is steering control. The shaft travels through the plastic pan and that is what it is supposed to support it to transfer the steering input down to the axle. With the massive torque on the front axle, the plastic just deflects and the wheels go wherever they want. Massive bump steer to. When attempting his hill climb a bump towards the top sends him flying sideways every time. I'll have to figure out some sort of support for the shaft.

Wiring Diagram, fwd rev and brake with just two relays.
Dual SPDT Control autobrake 4x4 jpg.jpg
Stuffed it all up front
2015-01-25 17.12.03.jpg
Matching gearboxes now :-) First test run ripped a pair of tie straps holding it to the axle, had to replace it with heavier duty straps. We'll see how they hold up.
2015-01-25 17.12.15.jpg
Switch connections
2015-01-25 17.17.03.jpg
Kids raided my junk yard and snagged all my spare wheels, lined them up leading to the 2.5' berm they catch air on. I've rolled my gas quad over backwards hitting it wrong. Somehow they manage it :roll:
2015-01-24 15.56.46b.jpg
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

Post by Creepycrawler »

any updates on this? I would love to own a metal frame jeep. how is the new power system working out? and what kind of relays are you using? standard automotive 30 amp?
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

Post by toycrusher »

Creepycrawler wrote:any updates on this? I would love to own a metal frame jeep. how is the new power system working out? and what kind of relays are you using? standard automotive 30 amp?
No real updates... Still sitting on the workbench. It's using 30 or 40 amp standard automotive relays. The issue was the torque steer from the front axle and the flimsy body not being able to control it. I have every intention of bracing the steering shaft, just haven't gotten around to it :x

Otherwise, it's a beast in the mud if direction isn't so important :roll: :twisted:
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

Post by taz11 »

I'll have to check my pile for you.....(yeah I know....THAT list is getting long :oops: :oops: ) I have seen some MF jeeps with a metal loop on the crossmember to support the steering shaft.



4x4 lift...., hubs and axle......, Crossmember..... :oops: :roll: :roll: :roll: :cry:
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

Post by tafpowerwheel »

what model suzuki quad did you take the wheels from. I used a 74750? i think and I didnt have to trim that much to make it turn. Unless you modded the turning radius and i skipped over that part/
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

Post by toycrusher »

tafpowerwheel wrote:what model suzuki quad did you take the wheels from. I used a 74750? i think and I didnt have to trim that much to make it turn. Unless you modded the turning radius and i skipped over that part/
Hmmm... Can't remember what I did. It definitely turns quite a bit after chopping the fenders, unfortunately, with 4wd, it makes no difference. The instant power is applied the wheels snap straight forward :x
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

Post by 6772owner »

Toycrusher,

I love this build, I wanted to do something similar with my daughters Barbie Beach Patrol, do you know what gearboxes I could use on the front of that model? I am concerned now that you have the steering issues under power though, any solution for that? Could you minimize that with an ESC and soft start you think?

Sorry for all of the questions, love the build (and everything else that you do)
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

Post by toycrusher »

6772owner wrote:Toycrusher,

I love this build, I wanted to do something similar with my daughters Barbie Beach Patrol, do you know what gearboxes I could use on the front of that model? I am concerned now that you have the steering issues under power though, any solution for that? Could you minimize that with an ESC and soft start you think?

Sorry for all of the questions, love the build (and everything else that you do)
I originally used 3A boxes, didn't require much modification to get them on. Torque steer wasn't horrible. When I upgraded to original MF gearboxes and 700 series motors up front, the torque became too much. They also required more extensive mods to get them on.

An ESC would be great, though a very experienced modder from years back, on the original site, did something similar except he went 36v but wired the motors in series pairs, front left to rear right and vice versa. This gave him an effective 18v per motor, and allowed some slippage greatly reducing the torque steer. I've been considering doing this myself.
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

Post by taz11 »

I used #3 on my 4x4 as well. They are the smallest gearboxes that are readily available and are plenty tough when used on the front where there is less weight and more wheel spin.
DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!..........Out of somebody's garbage

I'm trying to get out of PWs.........That idea's not working out real well......

My time on MPW is limited these days. I'm trying to check in everyday.....please be patient when awaiting responses.

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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

Post by 66deuce »

The instant power is applied the wheels snap straight forward
Using a worm gear would overcome this. Has it's downsides, not appropriate for full size vehicles at all, but may be an easy solution in this application.
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Re: Classic beach ranger 4x4 conv - MODIFIED!

Post by 6772owner »

Thank you for the input all, I may try this next then, I started tearing down the Jeep last night and am looking at options.
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