It needs a name

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toycrusher
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It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

This is stage one
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whkwt184
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Re: It needs a name

Post by whkwt184 »

Velociraptor..... 8-)
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toycrusher
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

Pieces are beginning to come together
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aVWguy
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Re: It needs a name

Post by aVWguy »

looking good .. but beware lol with all 4 rear wheels pushing in high gear the front wheels may want to skip along and not steer much
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toycrusher
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

It's going to be 36v with the motors run in three pairs for 18v each. The front tires will be one set, and then the rear left and rear right motors will be together. I plan on running a momentary kill switch so when the wheel is turned full lock it will cut power to either right or left rear motors. I'm not completely sure how I will rig the switches to the steering column yet.
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wired
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Re: It needs a name

Post by wired »

The turn signal switch from a hurricane has been suggested in another post for the steering cutout idea. I don't think anyone has tried it yet.

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aVWguy
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Re: It needs a name

Post by aVWguy »

as far as the name .. i am sure you will be calling it many names during the build lmao ...
you see it done and you'll be able to deside
yellow magica bumblebee drag bug
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KNIGHT RIDER eliminator & others
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5530&start=100
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viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7456
EZ rider harley
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gater dun
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12444
gratefuldad
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Re: It needs a name

Post by gratefuldad »

I never did figure out how to use the Hurricane steering column turn indicator. However, I did figure out how to mount 2 momentary switches at the steering assembly to perform the same function. My application was for "Real" turn signals where the momentary switches sent low volt to the Flasher/Lights. But something like this could easily work for what you are looking to do. Use a pair of these to trigger a relay, cutting power to the appropriate side of the truck.
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toycrusher
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

That's a good Idea. What vehicle is it mounted on? I was also considering a couple momentary push switches mounted to the steering column stops, but this may be easier. I don't yet know what steering setup I will be using. I have a rear suspension setup i'm working on and the shock mounting is going to determine my overall lift height. Depending on where that ends up, I may do a fixed lift for the front axle or go with a live axle and steering linkages.

How hard is it to convert to a power wheels to a gaucho rack and pinion steering? I've seen pictures but never held one in my hands so I'm not sure what's involved.
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gratefuldad
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Re: It needs a name

Post by gratefuldad »

This is mounted in the Super Power (same as any Gaucho).
I have never tried to swap out the front end in a PW with a Pegs. I would think if you could get everything lined up good and true where the Pinion Gear engages the Bar it would work great. These front ends are riveted, so you'd have to plan on replacing those if you need to cut anything down to fit.
For the Switch mounting, the sky is the limit as to where. I would think finding a fixed location for switch mounting that will allow enough room to adjust the sensitivity/point of contact could be found at the Steering Column itself (or the Steering Linkage as I did).
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toycrusher
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

I just ordered a Gaucho front axle and steering shaft with pinion. If it can't work I'll have some new parts for sale if anyone is interested.
"I'm not nuts, I prefer to be called an enthusiast! "

"I've stood on the shoulders of geniuses, and taken the next step..." ;-)

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(F150 6x6, 36v Superpower, 24v Beach Ranger 4x4, McQueen "El Relampago", 36v Polaris, Mudvette, Lil jeep dragster & mudder, 36v Rzr, Lifted Cowboy's jeep, FJ cruiser, Lil quad 18v, etc...)

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Tandem Axle Suspension

Post by toycrusher »

Just got the rear suspension started. It's pretty much what you will find under a road grader or some other heavy equipment. All aluminum to keep weight in check. I'm still working on the frame so it's not attached to anything yet.
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"I'm not nuts, I prefer to be called an enthusiast! "

"I've stood on the shoulders of geniuses, and taken the next step..." ;-)

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Master Project List
(F150 6x6, 36v Superpower, 24v Beach Ranger 4x4, McQueen "El Relampago", 36v Polaris, Mudvette, Lil jeep dragster & mudder, 36v Rzr, Lifted Cowboy's jeep, FJ cruiser, Lil quad 18v, etc...)

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daveweber34
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Re: It needs a name

Post by daveweber34 »

Oh yea. I like where this is going. :)
In Italy AND in our house WITH our household goods shipment. Yea!
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landon
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Re: It needs a name

Post by landon »

Nice :) I was wondering how/if you were going to use suspension.
If you're interested, at all... I think I have a diagram drawn up for a 4-motor right/left switched parallel/series 18v circuit. I thought about doing that on my snowmobile, but ended up not needing it.
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

Sure, post it. I'm planning on running 36v with motor pairs in series for 18v. It will actually be six motors total when I move on to the front axle. I would like to run a couple switches to cut power to left or right side for easier turning. Let me see your diagram and I may use it or parts of it at least.
"I'm not nuts, I prefer to be called an enthusiast! "

"I've stood on the shoulders of geniuses, and taken the next step..." ;-)

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Master Project List
(F150 6x6, 36v Superpower, 24v Beach Ranger 4x4, McQueen "El Relampago", 36v Polaris, Mudvette, Lil jeep dragster & mudder, 36v Rzr, Lifted Cowboy's jeep, FJ cruiser, Lil quad 18v, etc...)

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CJB
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Re: It needs a name

Post by CJB »

Make it amphibious - then it'd be an Argo. Mix that with Ford, and you have Fargo.

:D :D :roll:
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landon
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Re: It needs a name

Post by landon »

toycrusher wrote:Sure, post it. I'm planning on running 36v with motor pairs in series for 18v. It will actually be six motors total when I move on to the front axle. I would like to run a couple switches to cut power to left or right side for easier turning. Let me see your diagram and I may use it or parts of it at least.
I'll see what I can dig up. I'm not quite sure how you're going to cut power to one whole side and maintain ~18V to each side when running 3 pairs in series. :?:
Personally, I think your best bet it to either wire them all parallel at 18V and cut one side or the other for turning, or wire each pair in series like you said, but let the series connections act like an open differential and not bother with a complicated turn-to-trigger setup. Just my .02!

But, you know your project better than anyone so do it like you need it done, man!
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

landon wrote:
toycrusher wrote:Sure, post it. I'm planning on running 36v with motor pairs in series for 18v. It will actually be six motors total when I move on to the front axle. I would like to run a couple switches to cut power to left or right side for easier turning. Let me see your diagram and I may use it or parts of it at least.
I'll see what I can dig up. I'm not quite sure how you're going to cut power to one whole side and maintain ~18V to each side when running 3 pairs in series. :?:
Personally, I think your best bet it to either wire them all parallel at 18V and cut one side or the other for turning, or wire each pair in series like you said, but let the series connections act like an open differential and not bother with a complicated turn-to-trigger setup. Just my .02!

But, you know your project better than anyone so do it like you need it done, man!
My plan was the front axle as one pair, left rear 2nd pair, right rear 3rd pair. I would use an inline relay to break the circuit for either side of the rear axles. You have me curious though as to what you mean by let them act as an open differential?
"I'm not nuts, I prefer to be called an enthusiast! "

"I've stood on the shoulders of geniuses, and taken the next step..." ;-)

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Master Project List
(F150 6x6, 36v Superpower, 24v Beach Ranger 4x4, McQueen "El Relampago", 36v Polaris, Mudvette, Lil jeep dragster & mudder, 36v Rzr, Lifted Cowboy's jeep, FJ cruiser, Lil quad 18v, etc...)

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landon
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Re: It needs a name

Post by landon »

Ah, that pairing makes a lot more sense, then...
I'm sure some of the electronics experts on here can explain it better than me. But basically, when the motors are wired in series, the power split between the two is related to the load. If you've ever seen a 12V powerwheels in low speed with one wheel spinning freely while the other one isn't moving, it's because the motor that can turn easiest is hogging all the juice, so to speak. So, in your situation, when one side is slowed because of being inside in a turn, the other should speed up.

I *think* there might be cause for concern in running 36V in series because of this, but like I said before... I'm no expert! You should probably post that question in the Batteries/Electrical area to get the advice of someone that knows what the heck they're talking about! LOL
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

I get what you are saying now. I actually hadn't fully thought it through. That would work if each axle was set up as a pair, but traction would suffer. Perhaps I will go with three high capacity 6v batteries for my 18v setup and run all motors parallel for max traction. I can still do a cutoff switch if necessary.
"I'm not nuts, I prefer to be called an enthusiast! "

"I've stood on the shoulders of geniuses, and taken the next step..." ;-)

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Master Project List
(F150 6x6, 36v Superpower, 24v Beach Ranger 4x4, McQueen "El Relampago", 36v Polaris, Mudvette, Lil jeep dragster & mudder, 36v Rzr, Lifted Cowboy's jeep, FJ cruiser, Lil quad 18v, etc...)

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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

Frame has been assembled in wood to start. Much cheaper than aluminum for rough drafts...
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"I'm not nuts, I prefer to be called an enthusiast! "

"I've stood on the shoulders of geniuses, and taken the next step..." ;-)

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Master Project List
(F150 6x6, 36v Superpower, 24v Beach Ranger 4x4, McQueen "El Relampago", 36v Polaris, Mudvette, Lil jeep dragster & mudder, 36v Rzr, Lifted Cowboy's jeep, FJ cruiser, Lil quad 18v, etc...)

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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

Demonstration of some of the wheel travel it is capable of
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"I'm not nuts, I prefer to be called an enthusiast! "

"I've stood on the shoulders of geniuses, and taken the next step..." ;-)

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Master Project List
(F150 6x6, 36v Superpower, 24v Beach Ranger 4x4, McQueen "El Relampago", 36v Polaris, Mudvette, Lil jeep dragster & mudder, 36v Rzr, Lifted Cowboy's jeep, FJ cruiser, Lil quad 18v, etc...)

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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

Quite a bit of body panels to fill in!

I have since modified the frame for about 4" more lift out back.
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"I'm not nuts, I prefer to be called an enthusiast! "

"I've stood on the shoulders of geniuses, and taken the next step..." ;-)

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Master Project List
(F150 6x6, 36v Superpower, 24v Beach Ranger 4x4, McQueen "El Relampago", 36v Polaris, Mudvette, Lil jeep dragster & mudder, 36v Rzr, Lifted Cowboy's jeep, FJ cruiser, Lil quad 18v, etc...)

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gratefuldad
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Re: It needs a name

Post by gratefuldad »

Been thinking about your left/right rear "kill" while turning challenge. Just tossing out an idea here. So you've got a small fortune in GBs and motors with 6 wheel drive, you're looking for traction "full time" and you're buying plenty of batteries as is. What about going 24v ESC X 3? One unit for the front tires, one unit for Left rear set and one unit for the Right rear set? We know the Hall feed can be split 2 ways for "posi-traction" why not 3? So the front wheels see all of the signal from the pedal all of the time. Then the Right/Left ESCs get a low volt momentary switch in-line with thier Hall effect feed seperatly to stop those respective wheels while turning. This would lessen or atleast dampen the shock from the Start/Stop force applied to the Right/Left set GBs when turning. You are already "all-in" with 6 GB/motor sets on the line as-is and 3 ESCs are about the same cost as 1 set of blown GB/Motors? Just tossing this out there given your obdviouse investment of time and $ so far. I'm sitting my arse on the beach this week, but might could scratch-up a crude diagram of what's in my head for your consideration. Assuming that I'm not being too bold?
Eiether way, this looks like a very exciting Build. It looks like you're having fun with it and I'd bet a dollar your kids will have even more fun playing with it! That's Great!
Super Power 36v ESC & Lighting
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landon
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Re: It needs a name

Post by landon »

GD - I toyed with a similar setup for my snowmobile, only with 2 ESCs instead of 3. What I thought about doing and what might work here is to use independent potentiometers in the hall effect throttle lines for the right and left rear ESCs and connect them to the steering shaft somehow. so that when you turn right, it trims the pot and lowers (not kills) the throttle output to the right ESC, but keeps the front and left ESC at full.
I ended up being to cheap to ever try it, :lol:
just my .02!
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

I have been thinking along similar lines. However, I haven't been able to overcome these issues in my head. In regards to running ESC's, i'm more concerned about going all the way to 24v. Are heat sinks and fans necessary on a 24v ESC setup? The gearboxes and motors will be exposed because of the suspension so I'd rather not have extra pieces hanging off them to get caught by grass or other obstacles.

Back to the left/right kill switch, wouldn't a cut out switch give the same "jerky" start stop to the motors as when not running an ESC? I've thought long and hard about potentiometers connected to the steering shaft, but with such short travel lock-to-lock, how can I run one through it's entire range? There is also the issue that with one side increasing and the other decreasing, I can't see how to get full power to both sides simultaneously, especially since the front axle will be pulling steady.

Two possible solutions:
1)Spring loaded potentiometers with a pair of cams attached to the steering shaft that would only contact the left potentiometer when turning left and vice versa. (very very complicated and not much room under the dash for all this)
2)Kill switch idea but rather than cutting power completely I run power to each side through a 5 wire relay, 87 & 87a both connected inline to the motors, but with a sufficiently sized resistor on one of the outputs to effectively reduce voltage to the motors on the appropriate side. (just what I need, more relays, as if i'm not going to have enough wiring as it is!)

In any case, I appreciate the input and ideas, keep them coming!
"I'm not nuts, I prefer to be called an enthusiast! "

"I've stood on the shoulders of geniuses, and taken the next step..." ;-)

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Master Project List
(F150 6x6, 36v Superpower, 24v Beach Ranger 4x4, McQueen "El Relampago", 36v Polaris, Mudvette, Lil jeep dragster & mudder, 36v Rzr, Lifted Cowboy's jeep, FJ cruiser, Lil quad 18v, etc...)

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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

I'd sure love to install an electric actuator on each axle and have six wheel steering... Budget isn't there and my three year old has enough trouble with 3-point turns, I don't see him managing rear steer just yet...
"I'm not nuts, I prefer to be called an enthusiast! "

"I've stood on the shoulders of geniuses, and taken the next step..." ;-)

Image

Master Project List
(F150 6x6, 36v Superpower, 24v Beach Ranger 4x4, McQueen "El Relampago", 36v Polaris, Mudvette, Lil jeep dragster & mudder, 36v Rzr, Lifted Cowboy's jeep, FJ cruiser, Lil quad 18v, etc...)

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gratefuldad
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Re: It needs a name

Post by gratefuldad »

My 1st thought was a Pot for easing each sides input proportionately (kudos, I concur and all that good stuff Mr. Landon). I just couldn't get my mind around the actual mechanism. But Toycrusher nailed it! The Pots I get at the local Radio Shack are over sized and actually only use a fraction of the rotation (like 30 deg.?) to get from 0-24v. That being said, Toycrusher's idea of spring loading them to return to either position combined with the over sized Pots and knowing that Toycrusher has a Gaucho Steering assembly on order could make for a reasonably simple install? I think the Gaucho steering assembly is the "Key" here, straight plane with a good 3"+ of travel for accomodating this sort of mechanism. I've toying with something like this in my head for the Dual ESC Grande, given its tendancy to Spin out on loose gravel or dirt.
Just a general note with regards to ESCs, they do greatly reduce or eliminate the shock to the GBs from both starting and stopping. And I would think they would be much better than the 18v using the stock type shifter/throttle harnesses for reducing wear and tear. If 24v is too fast or hot than you could easily place another Pot in-line at the Hall pedal limiting it to 18v or whatever? With a twist of the knob you could dodge the Fan/heat sink issue (I don't use them).
My 1st thought is that with 6 motors pulling the load the heat build up at 24v would be considerably less than the guys with 21t GBs, Titans and an 80# kid who frequently cook these motors at 24v.
I can dig better into the range of movement from the Pots I use and what the specs are when I get back from the beach.
Once again, just sharing thoughts with a collaborative spirit!
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Gaucho Grande Dual 24v ESCs & Lighting
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toycrusher
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

@GD - Thanks for the ESC input. Now you have me considering it. I'm building a battery box into the frame beneath the seats. I have some serious thinking to do now in regards to what batteries to run. I have three good original 12v PW batteries that I planned to run at 36v, but i've since scratched that idea. I am also thinking of just running them in parallel for extra capacity and starting out with it being strictly a 12v ride, but the stock switches can't handle the amperage so I would have to use a very heavy duty relay for forward/reverse. I thought about running six 6v batteries in parallel sets wired in series to give me 18v and decent capacity, but if I go 24V with ESC's then I would probably need a fourth 12v battery. I have a feeling six GB's will cosume a 12ah battery pretty quickly.

With all (or most) the space under the seats taken up by batteries, I would have to figure out where to put three ESC's. I'm leaning towards the original front battery compartment, but I don't know yet how much of it I will have to remove to fit my front axle and steering system. Do the ESC's need air space for cooling or can I "stack" them together?

I know there are like 18 pages of this in the ESC thread, but I'm sure you can give me a brief summary that can save me some reading time (I'm terrible, I know). From what I could tell, It's important to run an external "kill" relay for the ESC because they can fail under power, and unintended acceleration is just as scary in a BPRO as it is in a bigger auto. Is this "kill" relay wired to carry power continuously, meaning I need to find a 90 amp relay? Or is it activated only momentarily where I can get away with a standard 30a relay? Ok, I'll go do some more reading...
Last edited by toycrusher on Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm not nuts, I prefer to be called an enthusiast! "

"I've stood on the shoulders of geniuses, and taken the next step..." ;-)

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Master Project List
(F150 6x6, 36v Superpower, 24v Beach Ranger 4x4, McQueen "El Relampago", 36v Polaris, Mudvette, Lil jeep dragster & mudder, 36v Rzr, Lifted Cowboy's jeep, FJ cruiser, Lil quad 18v, etc...)

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gratefuldad
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Re: It needs a name

Post by gratefuldad »

This thread is what I was thinking. You basically have one battery "set" feeding separate ESCs (in your case times 3). So you could go with 4-12v batts using 2 in parallel (20ah, I think stock batts are 10ah each?) then wire them in series giving you a 24v/20ah battery pack to draw from. No set of drive train motors would see more than 30amps individually each set of motors gets its own "3-pack" of relays and an ESC. I have been getting SPST 40/60amp relays off e-bay at like 5 for $12, you would need 2 sets. This configuration of relays gets you the "Kill" brakes and Fwd/Rev as well. Given the load is divided between 3 ESCs I don't really think your going to have a problem with heating. I'd probably locate them (ESCs) close to their respective wheels. The brake, rev., and Hall pedal wires are light gauge and cheap, so keep your Battery and Motor wires as close as possible for cost (that's why I would think the closer they are located to the Motors the better).
Edited (Darn iPhone!)

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12358
Last edited by gratefuldad on Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It needs a name

Post by Divinar »

Except that the brake and F/R relays have to be near the ESC, too.
My Grape Gaucho has that part of the wiring shown pretty clearly.
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Re: It needs a name

Post by gratefuldad »

Divinar wrote:Except that the brake and F/R relays have to be near the ESC, too.
My Grape Gaucho has that part of the wiring shown pretty clearly.
Certainly read up on Divinar's Grape build! All I know about SPST relays I learned from him!
10-4 on relays, they are connected by like a 3" wire (so very close). The brake, rev. & common grounds are light gauge making for a cheap longer run.

On a side note: in my Dual ESC diagram I placed the 12v common ground in the wrong place. They should be connected to the 86 pins. I'll edit that ASAP.

BTW: Your stock shifter switches will only be carrying the load of a few Relay coils with this configuration as well. No more 40+amp concerns about these stock switches :)
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

I'll read through that thread. Thanks!
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

I decided to add some underbody lighting to his current truck since the project is moving slowly. I had some neon light tubes left over from the days when I was modding "real" vehicles, funny what you can do when money doesn't all go to kids and kids toys :o

Anyways, Neon tubes might not be the best option for a kids toy, but I put them anyway. I took some embarrassingly cheap short cuts and just wired them inline with the foot pedal. I'm not ready to add switches to the dash and this way he can't accidentally leave them on and kill the battery. I am seriously considering some boggus tailpipes when I'm done with red led's inside wired to the foot pedal. He won't be able to see the "fire" coming out the exhaust but I can, and who are these mods for anyway?
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

Now back to the project.

I have a feeling I may have gone a bit overkill on ride height. I love the ridiculous amount of flex it is capable of, but for the wheelbase of the truck, I'm not sure he's going to be attempting to climb vertical walls, or purposely dropping off foot high ledges. I'll probably knock the height down about 2-3"
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

In regards to the ESC functions.

For the brake circuit, can I just use the "stock" resistor in the original PW harness? I am debating whether to add the brake pedal, or just skip it. I live on flat land so the truck isn't rolling away to anywhere anyways.

In regards to your dual ESC drawing, does each ESC control an axle, or a side of the truck? And are you running the motors in parallel? I'm confused why the rear is losing traction
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Re: It needs a name

Post by Divinar »

ALWAYS use a separate brake relay with an ESC - and put it between the ESC and the motors!

There have been enough cases of an ESC shorting out in full throttle to make me positively paranoid about it.

And teach them to hit the brake to stop first.
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Re: It needs a name

Post by gratefuldad »

Sometimes drawing it out is the quickest way to explain. Take a look at these crude drawings. I don't realy have the ability to draw good diagrams, so I tend to look at each part (system) as individual tasks.
So here is orientation of the ESCs related to tire "Sets".
Triple ESC Orientation.png
Triple ESC Orientation.png (10.5 KiB) Viewed 8659 times
Here is how I would envision the Single Hall Pedal "Feed" could be divided up to control the 3 ESCs.
Note: The 1st "Master" Pot will allow you to limit the amount of power the Whole car will receive, so you can slow it down to 12v performance or up to the full 24v potential based on what your Kid/Car can handle. The Right/Left Pots will allow you to reduce or stop the "inside" set of wheels while turning.
Triple ESC Hall Dwg.png
This one gives a c loser look at how the Brake F/R Relays interact with the ESCs. We use these "After" the ESC to provide a proven and safe way to Kill all power to the Motors. Run-Aways are No Joke (been there, done that!)! We Simply just don't Trust these cheapo Chinese circuit boards to stop our kids. So your Brake pedal would have 3ea 12v + leads (one per Brake Relay). And your Reverse would have 3ea 12v + leads (one per set of F/R Relays).
Triple ESC Drive Train.png
These are the Pots that I use (due to local availability). They go from 0-24v in half of a turn. You could cut the speed in half for the "inside" wheel set while turning with a quarter turn of the dial.
Or go back to the starting conversation about using the little momentary switches (located where the Left/Right Pots are in this Dwg.) to cut the Hall "Feed" to the ESC making that set go Dead/Free Wheel?
Radio Shack Pot.JPG
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

Thanks for the diagrams and the p/n on the pot. Saves a bunch of time when you can figure out what already works.
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

Ok. I'm considering converting his working truck to ESC for practice before going all-in with a triple setup. I came across a thread with a decent "shopping list" from TSC that listed parts that worked with the LBD-14. Primarily the foot pedal. However, I can't find it anymore. Can someone here post a link?

Thanks
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Re: It needs a name

Post by landon »

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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

That was easy (for me). Thanks. Anything else special necessary besides the LBD-14? I plan to use the stock brake resistor unless someone stops me :-D
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Re: It needs a name

Post by daveweber34 »

What do you mean "stock" brake resistors? If you mean using the controllers brake function, forget about it. That's a known recipe to cook the LBD controller (I know, I've cooked them already). You must use an external relay to activate the brake circuit for the vehicle. NEVER ANY OF THE BRAKE CONNECTORS ON THE LBD-14!
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

I meant using the stock resistor for the relay. But are you Saying to leave the brake leads disconnected completely?
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Re: It needs a name

Post by gratefuldad »

What he's saying do not connect to the leads on the actual ESC.
We use the Relays w/resistor to provide the Braking. I don't know what size the stock resistor is, but you can reference what other people are using for size. You can play with the value and adjust them to fit your needs. You're in rather un charted waters with a 6x build.
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

Got it. I was a bit confused seeing some diagrams with what seemed like the brake leads triggering tail lights and such. It will probably be much easier once I get one of these controllers in my hands. Thanks
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Re: It needs a name

Post by gratefuldad »

What ESC thread are you going to use for this build? That'll help us to better understand your questions. Some of us have read and and tried many types of set-ups. Like Jornum, Dave and I, while others wrote them, like Taz and Divinar.
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

I didn't realize I had multiple options. I saw 20 different controls on the tnc site, but lbd14 is what I keep hearing about so that seems to be the way to go. I like your drawings above so I would use the pedal throttle, stock pedal for brake, and triple relay setup. I will use the stock shifter to trigger forwards and reverse, and I have no plans for a low speed or "turbo" speed. I will add lighting later. Does that make sense?
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Re: It needs a name

Post by gratefuldad »

Shopping List (for 1 ESC)

LBD14 Controller:
http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route= ... uct_id=159

2-Pin Connector: You need 1 for the "Key" + 1 for the Charging connectors
http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route= ... duct_id=99

3-Pin Connector: You need one for the Hall Pedal "Feed"
http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route= ... duct_id=98

Motor/Batt Connector: You need 2 of these
http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route= ... uct_id=104

Ignition Key: I use these personally. You could use a "Jumper or low volt switch too. You just have to short this connector to activate the ESC.
http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route= ... uct_id=110

That's your TNC Scooters order (you found the Hall pedal). Charging 24v is entirely up to you, but TNC has the Generic 24v chargers and charging ports at "fair" prices too. They have a flat rate shipping policy at $8.00, so get all you can into that box. I always order extra connectors as they can be a bit fragile.

These are Mighty Handy for the Relay connections, good links to be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12369

Relays: Remember, they have two different amp ratings. So a 40a Bosh style SPST Relay is rated for 40a in normally opened position and 30a in normally closed position. These diagrams have the current running through the normally closed position. That is why I buy the 60a SPST (40a closed) Relays for reliability's sake.

Northern Tool has the Best price on wire where we live.

The Brake Resistor that I use is a ceramic 5watt between .01 and .05ohm resistance. You're looking to balance the stopping distance while reducing the impact on the Gear Boxes. So you can play with this value.

You are only connecting to the [ Motor / Battery / Ignition(Key) / Derailleur(Hall) / Charger ] connectors on the ESC itself. Something about the Braking Circuit in the LBD14 doesn't work and will "Cook" the circuit board if used. daveweber34 is a Pioneer in this discovery and deserves many Thanks for his Costly contribution to this research.

You can trigger the Brake lights with the same 12v tap that you use to signal the Relays. Remember when making up your Battery connections that you'll need to tap one of the 12v Batts to supply all of the 12v circuits. Or you can install a separate 12v dedicated to Lighting/Control circuit.
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Re: It needs a name

Post by toycrusher »

Thanks for the list. Using quick connects is a bit better than splicing the wiring if I need to replace the ESC later. I appreciate the first hand experience you share.
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