Lil F150 Speed project

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:03 pm

Im gonna move some from the traction posts that I have to here.
The project is a little F150 with traction bands on the rear.

Today, I had failure. The #3 GBs couldn't keep handling the added traction and the Duratrax motors that I added. On a speed test today, the GBs fragged again. So...What do you do when your little F150 keeps fragging GBs? You break out the small sawzall and add #7 GBs.

I already had it set up for fans. I had to cut a little where the GBs mount and I had to cut the tower so the Motor didnt hit. I also removed the screws from the GB sides and ran them through the wheelwell and into the GB. This way they wont slip back and forth.

taz11 · Post by **taz11** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:11 pm

The screw idea is cool.....Did you have to use longer screws? What parts did you kill in the #3....I'm determined to make some bullit proof yet!

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:36 pm

I did use slightly longer screws. My motors, pinions and the first gear had a falling out. The flexing under the extreme traction hasnt helped much. Ive already pinned the gearboxes with the screws like you did. They still popped once and that must have been when the one GB went down. 5 laps for a total of one mile with lap speeds at 1:39-1:40 minutes each didnt impress me. 8.25 minute mile. Wonder what speed that is?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=178614328918737

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:49 pm

7.1 MPH....Still not what I was aiming at. With the 21Ts in there from a Harley, I will do two tests with 12v and then 18v

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:10 pm

Well...If the super 6 GBs run 6mph +/- on 12v and this is running 7.1MPH on 12V, I see it as a slight speed improvement. Im aiming for more of a reliable 10-12MPH. lol
Fast, cheap and reliable....Just pick any 2.

The motors I used are the Duratrax starter motors from here viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6517 They ran good but arent the speed I was looking for. They will handle 18V easily but the GBs wont. Maybe I will try 3 speed tests. 21T on 12V, 21T on 18V and then 21T on Duratrax 12v.

Whitepup · Post by **Whitepup** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:12 pm

Very nice 1120! I was also hacking on a F-150. Dremel FTW!

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:08 pm

I bought a Black and Decker rechargable saw a year or so ago and it uses jig saw blades. Its like a little sawzall and works good on plastic hacking. The dremel melts plastic too easily for me on larger jobs.
I trying out combinations to find "the one". I want it to be a go to machine for speed and reliability. Im really past the point of tired of hearing "honey, she broke her truck/car/four wheeler/head" as I walk in the door. I may be on the right track with moving away from the 3B GBs. Everything else just isnt as easy to add them to as this was.

taz11 · Post by **taz11** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:19 pm

Moving to 14" tires may help also. My 12mph cars are running stock 700's in 21ts with 14" tires at 24 volts.

Is that the Black and Decker Handisaw? Sounds just like it. Thats what I use too. Works great for trimming.

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:56 pm

Yep. Handi saw. I neglected to mention that Im aiming for a "sleeper" version of the truck. Nothing on the outside should scream SPEED or modifed.
They have Power Wheels races at a mud bog a couple of towns over. Im hoping to cover my walls with the little car trophies that the winner gets. They dont have classes. Its run what you brung. I watched their videos and its flooded with barbie jeeps with car batteries sticking out of the hood and no traction gators with hex screws in the tires. They aint seen the likes of a MPW'r yet.

taz11 · Post by **taz11** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:09 pm

Hmmmm..... How long does it have to run? :D :D :D :D

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:32 am

It can be as many as 4 three minute races

Whitepup · Post by **Whitepup** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:17 am

You are right, the dremel does suck, but it works. Black and Decker Handisaw hmmmm. Sounds like another Santa gift. :)

madmaxdecals · Post by **madmaxdecals** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:56 am

Whitepup wrote:You are right, the dremel does suck, but it works. Black and Decker Handisaw hmmmm. Sounds like another Santa gift. :)

+1

wired · Post by **wired** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:31 pm

taz11 wrote:Hmmmm..... How long does it have to run? :D :D :D :D

I like where this is going. :D

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:33 am

Im hoping to get back to speed testing this unit soon. Maybe the weather and work will allow it before next weekend.

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:46 pm

Got a chance to do a prelim test today. Nothing that was too video worthy except the inability to steer under full acceleration. Guess Im gonna have to move more batteries forward.
So far, here is the combo:
2-21T Gearboxes from a Harley (Im now convinced there is a difference)
2-CPU fans on high
1-12v-4.5ah battery for the fans
1-12v12ah battery with a 40 amp fuse
1-6v12ah battery
2- rear wheels with timing belts added for traction

Ive already added a red 6v battery under the hood for traction on the front wheels. It snatches them off the ground under acceleration. Im going to move the 12v4.5ah battery under the hood as well to add more steering ability. Ive relocated the 12v and 6v batteries to the tray behind the seat.
If you use this combination and have any hopes of using it in grass or dirt, make a wiring upgrade to 10ga. The factory wire will melt in your hands under 18v power.

madmaxdecals · Post by **madmaxdecals** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:08 am

I totally agree that there is a difference in the Harley 21t gb's....I've done some testing and they are slightly quicker for sure than a 21t out of a mustang. Sounds like a killer combo...hope to see some videos of this

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:56 pm

So heres todays update on the 1/5th mile track
12v with 21Ts - 1min 36secs
18v with 21Ts - 1min 10secs
24v with 21Ts - 53secs (13.6mph if my math is right)
and a possible destroyed right gearbox.
Photos and a video link to come shortly

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:06 pm

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=196068093840027

Heres a link to her last lap clip on 24v before I heard the grinding

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:56 pm

Heres the pics of the failure.

: Heres what I saw in the GB

: Heres a side by side of the good first gear on the left and bad first gear on the right.

Bad thing is that the whole thing may have been prevented by using a better lubricant. The PW grease melted and ran away from the gears under this speed. Before I change it out, Im gonna get real bearing grease for the replacement.

gwinnythepooh · Post by **gwinnythepooh** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:05 pm

Wow. That looks fast for a tiny truck

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:15 pm

gwinnythepooh wrote:Wow. That looks fast for a tiny truck

I noticed that she had trouble steering because its still pushing the front wheels in turns. 13.6mph was the math I came up with on her speed. 53sec laps on a 1/5th mile track. Mommy insisted that she wore her helmet today since she saw how excited I was to test it out. Wonder if she doesnt trust me? lol

gwinnythepooh · Post by **gwinnythepooh** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:30 pm

LOL... I don't trust life in general, Kids should wear helmets at all time. My son was only going 6V in grass when he rolled the Harley yesterday and hit his head on the ground.

13.6 is dang fast

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:38 pm

Well I did hit her in the forehead with the door of the truck today. We were leaving Autozone and she was behind me and the next thing I know shes on the pavement crying. Crazy

bricklayer99 · Post by **bricklayer99** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:06 am

Putting a bearing on the first pin in is the only way I've been able to avoid melting the first gear in. I've ruined twenty cases and gears on 24v esc rides until I put a bearing there. Ive tried lots of different brands of grease with no luck.

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:02 am

Hmm. I did seem to remember you and Taz doing that after I posted the pics. Thats probably gonna be the route I take.

madmaxdecals · Post by **madmaxdecals** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:57 am

Wow...that thing was humming around the track....awesome. Is there a thread on putting a bearing on the first pin...I'd like to see that if anyone has the link...couldn't track it in the search engine

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:04 pm

madmaxdecals wrote:Wow...that thing was humming around the track....awesome. Is there a thread on putting a bearing on the first pin...I'd like to see that if anyone has the link...couldn't track it in the search engine

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=46&p=56712#p56712

madmaxdecals · Post by **madmaxdecals** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:38 pm

ms1120 wrote:
madmaxdecals wrote:Wow...that thing was humming around the track....awesome. Is there a thread on putting a bearing on the first pin...I'd like to see that if anyone has the link...couldn't track it in the search engine
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=46&p=56712#p56712" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thank you sir

bricklayer99 · Post by **bricklayer99** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:33 pm

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3575
Resulted from this

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2900

kennmcook · Post by **kennmcook** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:49 am

I was wondering which way the fans are blowing? If you have a heat issue then you could do a push pull configuration (adding 2 fans) and maybe add a heat-sink to the motors.

I was wondering if I going to have to make special considerations taking the stock setup from 6v to 12v. When did you add the fans? What was the effect?

Also, if you mounted Gearboxes to remove the play, wouldn't that put more stress on the gears? I was thinking that the back and forth on the gearboxes removed tension on the gears, especially to soften stops and starts.

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:06 pm

The fans are blowing forward from the rear so they dont add dirt to the motor area and they vent from the sides. 6v to 12v in stock configuration wouldnt need fans. I added fans when I went to the 21T #7 GBs and 18V. The stress on the GBs wasnt the reason I had to mount them. The Lil F150 comes with #3 GBs and the #7s had to be fitted into place. I used the existing screw holes on the GBs to run screws through the side so that the GB wouldnt lean in at the top and flop front to rear. If you dont have a secondary traction method on it, you would never know the difference. This one will pull the tires about 3 inches off the ground for the first 5 feet or so. Since I wasnt using this combination in the grass, the motors and wires never really got hot. The speed of the gears is what caused failure and the heat generated from that speed caused the factory grease to run to the bottom of the box. 21T Gbs and 18V would be alot less trouble. 21T at 12v would be nearly trouble free and was in the grass and dirt for 2 weeks prior to the testing. 21T on 12v and timing belts for traction is a great combo for riding in the grass and dirt and will go nearly anywhere you point it. Leaves, Mud, Dirt, Pinestraw and even sand are no problem.

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Thu May 17, 2012 10:37 pm

I have some new mods. New paint, new GBs and new motors. On the first test drive in gravel and dirt, I noticed that the vehicle had alot of push. It would turn but not enough to actually turn around. On the second lap, Little Maniac crashed into a pipe rack and hit head first on the steering wheel. Tonight, I'd been pondering a roll cage and 5 point harness. So I added one. I used a lil jeep roll bar and a belt assembly from a car seat.

I even added the adjuster so that we could cinch it up. Her lip is still black but she was wearing a helmet. I thought about adding a pad from the center of a race car wheel but I think keeping her from flopping forward to begin with will help more.

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Sun May 20, 2012 10:30 pm

So I guess Ive missed some sort of class on physics. Before I bring out 4 bathroom scales and put the driver in the car to get the weight balance right, what is everyone else doing to make the vehicle turn and not push under acceleration? My initial thoughts are that if I add too much to the front in the way of traction, the vehicles high center of gravity might make it flip.

sirironduke · Post by **sirironduke** » Mon May 21, 2012 2:13 am

well adding more weight in the front will help. if you add more or larger batterys you will get more weight and longer run time. though my thought would be adding traction to only the front wheels. if you do all 4 you will have other issues. if you did just the front, my guess is the lesser traction rear would slide out before it flips. basicly giving you oversteer than understeer that you have now. you can test that theroy with duct tape on the fronts. it wont add a lot of traction but if it makes a difference for the better, it will give you a direction.

sirironduke · Post by **sirironduke** » Mon May 21, 2012 2:14 am

just my $0.02 ^

kennmcook · Post by **kennmcook** » Sat May 26, 2012 9:46 am

I guess, I didn't realize that you basically have the same F150. lol. I also noticed from the added pic that you mounted your shiftier in the same location. Must have been on the same wave length on that one. lol. I do like how you had added the switches to the steering wheel. I didn't add any to mine, yet. lol. Although I have a key switch, light switch, and will be adding a voltmeter, as a battery gauge, to the dash.

As for weight distribution, I was thinking about adding 1 battery behind each of the front tires. That would place one just under your shiftier and the other on the opposite side. Mine will not be going as fast as yours, however the idea was to keep the extra weight somewhat centered and close to the front. I used the original battery box as a sub-woofer speaker box for a 2.1 computer speaker system.

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Sun May 27, 2012 10:58 am

I changed the fans to blow rearward because they were sucking up dust. They now pull air from the seat back and push it out at the ground behind the GBs. I fixed the steering issue by adding serpentine belts to the front tires. It worked well on Vindogs track but I think it may be too much for pavement at full speed. It did great on 18v with this mod.

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:49 pm

Heres a pic of her in her harness before she put on her helmet for the Woodstock Nationals.

bruces_eviltwin · Post by **bruces_eviltwin** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:57 pm

if only we lived closer...id predict a drag race :P :P :P :P :P

: 304916_3941430647525_35235481_n.jpg (23.2 KiB) Viewed 11898 times

ms1120 · Post by **ms1120** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:16 pm

I'd like to do it. I know she would. We've only been lasered at 16.1mph in full mod form but it cooks gearboxes. It would be ok for a drag race though.