Dozer's ninja, MF gb's and scooter controler (video)

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:13 am

ok first thing is to get the gearbox housing into the basement where it's warm.
So pull a ninja with #3 gearboxes out of the rafters.

next go to shed/leanto thing in back yard and pull metalframe gearboxes out of a jeep.
No pics to bloody cold. :x

then clean up the gearboxes (they're sticky) :(

The gearbox housing.

: with #3 gearboxes. It looks like new cause it is. It's one of the ones we got with all the surplus stuff we bought

MF GB is bigger than I thought but most of it still fits within the housing dimensions, so it's a go.

: I'm holding it beside the housing in this pic.

After cutting drilling and slicing, it fits. :D

: the black (arrows) is where the screw projections on the side of the GB stick through holes I cut. it's the same on the bottom
and at the front I had to cut out the part for the screw in the housing. I'll have to reinforce it somehow later.

The tools I used. Used the side cutters to cut down the sides of plastic and the straight cutters to nibble out between the sidecuts. the drill saw and knife, well get creative. Took about an hour to do this one side.

Use this link for reference about metal frame gearboxes
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1038

hootienchyna · Post by **hootienchyna** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:15 am

nice, but what is that tool with the liquid in it

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:11 am

hootienchyna wrote:nice, but what is that tool with the liquid in it

Oh that's the key to the whole thing. It improves accuracy, speed and resistance to pain.
Especially with bricklaying, and shingles. I'd still be building my garage if it wasn't for that tool.
It really does improve bricklaying cause you just don't care about mistakes. The key is to use 5000 mismatched bricks that a construction let you take for free. They hide mistakes.

bricklayer99 · Post by **bricklayer99** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:03 am

AMEN Brother

taz11 · Post by **taz11** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:07 am

I heard that....... I did all the blockwork for my 600sqft addition (with basement). I'm glad I had the experience but it brings new found respect for those who do it every day. UUUUGGHH! Three years later, my fingers finally stopped cramping up. The doctor called it "trigger finger" from squeezing all the blocks to pick them up.

....and the "Parging" .......one of the most infuriating jobs known to man!

BTW...nice trim job .........looks professional. Trimming plastic neatly is harder that one might think.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:32 pm

taz11 wrote:I heard that....... I did all the blockwork for my 600sqft addition (with basement). I'm glad I had the experience but it brings new found respect for those who do it every day. UUUUGGHH! Three years later, my fingers finally stopped cramping up. The doctor called it "trigger finger" from squeezing all the blocks to pick them up.

....and the "Parging" .......one of the most infuriating jobs known to man!

BTW...nice trim job .........looks professional. Trimming plastic neatly is harder that one might think.

After a few weeks of bricklaying I measured my forearm after a few days rest. 13 1/2". After 3 days straight of laying bricks and mixing mortar in a wheelbarrow (which is worse than laying brick) 14 1/2"

Regarding the plastic. I was expecting a real mess too. but those straight cutters worked real well and the hobby knife was very sharp with a thin blade so it trimmed edges just right.

Can we assume by the name bricklayer that's what you do for a living.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:38 pm

missed a photo.
Is there a limit to haow many photos you can put in 1 post.

sea_stork · Post by **sea_stork** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:35 pm

hootienchyna wrote:nice, but what is that tool with the liquid in it

It's a level. :lol:

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:32 pm

sea_stork wrote:
hootienchyna wrote:nice, but what is that tool with the liquid in it
It's a level. :lol:

itsh a 'hic" wevel, luuks shtraat tuh meh.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:23 pm

waiting for parts on this too. but TNC scooters just sent it out a few days ago.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:43 pm

The search function on the old site doesn't seem to be working.
Anyone got wiring diagrams for an LBD14 controller.

jparthum · Post by **jparthum** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:01 pm

TNC has the wire connections posted on their site if that's what you're looking for...?

http://www.tncscooters.com/LBD14.php

jparthum · Post by **jparthum** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:20 am

See if this looks like what you're wanting dozer...

Click to animate

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:37 pm

looks good so far.
so the run button and the brake pedal are just in series.
I could just make the brake pedal turn the brakes on when you take your foot off it right. He's already used to stopping that way.

What exactly does the brake connector do.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:52 pm

Went shopping at sayal today and rummaging in my service van.

the large thing on the lower right is a 24v contactor out of a powered walkie (like you might see in a grocery store.)
rated for like 150 amps. won't weld shut at pw's currents. The bar in front of it is out of a bigger contactor for about 600amps. the little one leaning on it is out of a contactor like the one above it

jparthum · Post by **jparthum** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:27 pm

dozer wrote:looks good so far.
so the run button and the brake pedal are just in series.
I could just make the brake pedal turn the brakes on when you take your foot off it right. He's already used to stopping that way.

Sure, you could reverse the operation of the Brake Pedal switch and eliminate the "Run" Button. You would lose the ability to have "Neutral" without pressing the pedal, and if you added brake lights they would stay on any time the pedal is up and the battery is connected. :|

What exactly does the brake connector do.

I'm hoping you can tell me! :? :P

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:16 am

No idea.
I'll email Chris a TNC and ask.
I'm still surprised they came with no paperwork at all.
even the simplest electronic devices I have to put on forklifts come with instructions.
I'm thinking it will apply the brakes.

taz11 · Post by **taz11** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:28 am

Brake connector will cut power to the motors. It should be hooked to a brake pedal switch. Not sure is it is NO or NC.

I highly recomend using it as one of the "more than one way to stop it"

jparthum · Post by **jparthum** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:47 am

dozer wrote:No idea.
I'll email Chris a TNC and ask.
I'm still surprised they came with no paperwork at all.
even the simplest electronic devices I have to put on forklifts come with instructions.

Really! :roll: I've search pretty extensively too, and haven't found any detailed specs yet. :(

I'm thinking it will apply the brakes.

Do some scooters use electric brakes? I don't recall seeing any on TNC's site. :?

taz11 wrote:Brake connector will cut power to the motors. It should be hooked to a brake pedal switch. Not sure is it is NO or NC.

I highly recomend using it as one of the "more than one way to stop it"

Yeah, I agree - should be simple enough to add also.

Any idea what "Brake Signal Connector" is? :?

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:32 pm

on the controller they are labeled brake lights and brake.
I assume the brake lights turns on the brake lights
and after thinking about it the brake just cuts the motors out like taz said.
I don't think you'd want a scooter hitting the brakes every time the throttle was released.

No response from TNC yet but he's been great so far so I'm sure he will.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:41 pm

Think I blew the contoller putting power to it to check signal voltages.

jparthum · Post by **jparthum** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:52 am

dozer wrote:on the controller they are labeled brake lights and brake.
I assume the brake lights turns on the brake lights
and after thinking about it the brake just cuts the motors out like taz said.
I don't think you'd want a scooter hitting the brakes every time the throttle was released.

No response from TNC yet but he's been great so far so I'm sure he will.

If they were just a little more descriptive (and consistent :roll: ) in their wording, all of this confusion could be eliminated. :x

TNC's site shows two connectors labelled using the word "brake" (neither are what you describe): "Brake Signal Connector" and "Brake Connector". Just before the labels, they have the note: "Power Cut Off During Braking - When underway the brake switch signals the controller to cut the battery output."
So it sounds like the controller has two connectors which may, or may not, be referenced as; "Brake Signal Connector", "Brake Connector", "Brake Switch", "Brake Lights", or "Brake". :o :shock: :x

dozer wrote:Think I blew the contoller putting power to it to check signal voltages.

Geez dozer! :roll: Can't you follow simple instructions! :twisted:

:P

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:45 am

It was late and I just wanted to see if there was voltage anywhere.
put power to it and electric pop. :o
put the wire to it a second time and no pop

at the bottom of the page you posted it says hook up the battery last. guess thats why.
what kind of controller can't handle having power hooked up for testing. :evil:

Took it apart and theres a small black spot near the power wires. Might be able to bypass it with some wire.

Good thing I bought 2 controllers. I'll take apart the other one later and see what's under the black spot.

The other thing I noticed. None of the connectors are labeled throttle. There's only 1 three wire connector and it's labeled deraileur.

jparthum · Post by **jparthum** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:56 am

dozer wrote:It was late and I just wanted to see if there was voltage anywhere.
put power to it and electric pop. :o
put the wire to it a second time and no pop

at the bottom of the page you posted it says hook up the battery last. guess thats why.
what kind of controller can't handle having power hooked up for testing. :evil:

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. :?
Maybe it needs to be connected to the motors first...? Most of the other connectors seem to be optional...?

Took it apart and theres a small black spot near the power wires. Might be able to bypass it with some wire.

Good thing I bought 2 controllers. I'll take apart the other one later and see what's under the black spot.

The other thing I noticed. None of the connectors are labeled throttle. There's only 1 three wire connector and it's labeled deraileur.

"Deraileur" means "gear changer" in French or something - you Canadians should know that! :roll:

:lol:

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:04 pm

so what is the throttle

bricklayer99 · Post by **bricklayer99** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:30 pm

My first controller and throttle had the led lights that showed self diagnostics. If the motors were not hooked up before powering the controller it would default and the leds would blink. It would stay default until it was powered down.

jparthum · Post by **jparthum** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:30 pm

The "Deraileur" is the connector for a 'Hall Effect' throttle. I guess they used that term because it is variable - similar to gearing...?

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:54 pm

bricklayer99 wrote:My first controller and throttle had the led lights that showed self diagnostics. If the motors were not hooked up before powering the controller it would default and the leds would blink. It would stay default until it was powered down.

what's the model # of that controller cause I'm not impressed with this one.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:04 pm

jparthum wrote:The "Deraileur" is the connector for a 'Hall Effect' throttle. I guess they used that term because it is variable - similar to gearing...?

you've obviously never read service manuals translated from Japanese.
The worst was actually a volvo manual translated from swiss. Or is it swedish?
either way it probably just got lost in translation from chinese.

I'm sick with a head cold and can't focus on it tonight.

hotrodtodd · Post by **hotrodtodd** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:26 pm

dozer wrote:It was late and I just wanted to see if there was voltage anywhere.
put power to it and electric pop. :o
put the wire to it a second time and no pop

at the bottom of the page you posted it says hook up the battery last. guess thats why.
what kind of controller can't handle having power hooked up for testing. :evil:

Took it apart and theres a small black spot near the power wires. Might be able to bypass it with some wire.

Good thing I bought 2 controllers. I'll take apart the other one later and see what's under the black spot.

The other thing I noticed. None of the connectors are labeled throttle. There's only 1 three wire connector and it's labeled deraileur.

I have a lbd-14 controller in the lifted jeep and it pops every time I hook up the batteries,not sure why but it does.And it is still working,so hopefully yours isnt fried.Thats about all I can tell you about these because that is the only one I have installed. :|

bricklayer99 · Post by **bricklayer99** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:30 pm

I used this one only because I bought a scooter off of cl and gutted it for all the parts. It ran all four motors today with no problems up some steep hills and through a lot of mud. http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101169

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:31 pm

like a litle spark and a pop?!!!!!! cause that would be good news:D :D :D

hotrodtodd · Post by **hotrodtodd** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:48 pm

dozer wrote:like a litle spark and a pop?!!!!!! cause that would be good news:D :D :D

Yea,I always hook up the pos wire last and it sparks and pops kinda loud.
I would almost bet your controller is fine.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:07 pm

it popped once and didn't pop the second time so I figured something had blown. but now that you mention it. I might have hooked up the neg last the second time. Thanks.

We're busy packing for Haiti now and I keep getting the evil eye from the wife.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:09 pm

bricklayer99 wrote:I used this one only because I bought a scooter off of cl and gutted it for all the parts. It ran all four motors today with no problems up some steep hills and through a lot of mud. http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101169

Thanks might try that one in the future.

hotrodtodd · Post by **hotrodtodd** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:03 am

dozer wrote:it popped once and didn't pop the second time so I figured something had blown. but now that you mention it. I might have hooked up the neg last the second time. Thanks.

We're busy packing for Haiti now and I keep getting the evil eye from the wife.

Well for some reason it will pop the first time and if you disconnect and reconnect in a few seconds it wont pop the second time.
Good luck on your trip and be safe.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:26 pm

Todd I'm happy to say you were right. The controller is fine.
I had to try it before we went to haiti, couldn't leave it for 2 weeks.

and the connector labeled "power locks" is for the key switch. That's the one jumped with a yellow crimp connector.

I see what blake meant by how loud the MF GB's are.

hotrodtodd · Post by **hotrodtodd** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:26 pm

Yea,the metal frame GBs are noisy. Imagine 4 of them droaning around the yard on one vehicle! :D

bricklayer99 · Post by **bricklayer99** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:40 am

Progress?

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:00 am

Getting back to this.
Had the trip to Haiti. then had to settle back in here. and we've all been sick.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:35 am

Just realized I made a comment about a contactor but never added the pic.

If I added the contactor on the motor wires. and had it open the pos and neg wires at the same time that would:

A) be a good fail safe

B) not send any feedback into the controller.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:38 am

dozer wrote:Went shopping at sayal today and rummaging in my service van.

the large thing on the lower right is a 24v contactor out of a powered walkie (like you might see in a grocery store.)
rated for like 150 amps. won't weld shut at pw's currents. The bar in front of it is out of a bigger contactor for about 600amps. the little one leaning on it is out of a contactor like the one above it

Just realized I made a comment about a contactor but never added the pic.

If I added the contactor on the motor wires. and had it open the pos and neg wires at the same time that would:

A) be a good fail safe

B) not send any feedback into the controller.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:12 pm

Ok been on this for a few days, just haven't had time to post about it.

It works. It almost didn't but I found the battery connector to the controller doesn't hold its tabs tightly. I just had to make sure the tabs slide into the slots (enter joke here).

I works just the way you designed it Jpartham. Fast in forward and half speed in rev.
I'll put the wheels on it for a test drive tomorrow morning. It's supposed to be warm tomorrow 13c, 55f.

bricklayer99 · Post by **bricklayer99** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:13 am

Looks great! Should be indestructable with MF gb. ESC is the best mod in my opinion hands down.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:21 am

I'll find out in an hour or so when he rides it.

jparthum · Post by **jparthum** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:12 pm

Wow, you knocked that out pretty quickly! Looks great dozer! :)

I kinda forgot what kind of vehicle this was going in, and hadn't thought about cooling for the controller. But where you placed it seems like the best place for adding some cooling slots and fans, if you find that it's getting hotter than you like. 8-)

I'd love to see some video too :P , if it's not too much of a PIA :oops: .

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:45 pm

Video done.
I don't know if he hasn't got the hang of the thumb throttle or not but it didn't seem to hit top speed that often. If you listen carefully you can hear it pick up a couple of times.
Last year he rode in circles till the motors blew (literally). Today he said his thumb hurt from the throttle. I might have it in the wrong postion but I'm wondering if a twist grip would have been better.
I didn't use a twist cause someone said kids hit it while climbing on but he's used to not stepping on the pedal as he gets on.
The MF GB's are real loud. and it does seem slower than it did with the 12T's and straight 24V.

Could I use the twist grip from an MX350.
How many teeth on the pinions in the old MF firetruck. It doesn't say on the side.
Thanks for the help and suggestions.
Now if the pinions for the raptor would just get here.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:46 pm

Hey thats the first time I loaded my own video on here. Does it always take so long to load a video on youtube

jparthum · Post by **jparthum** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:11 pm

Awesome dozer! That's great! :D

That certainly doesn't look slow to me, but I did expect a little more speed (although I don't remember how the MF GB ratios compare to, say 16Ts :? ).

How was the temperature for the motors and controller?

Have you considered either replacing, or cutting and stretching the spring in the thumb throttle?

You're internet access is probably 'asynchronous' - meaning that the upload speed is much slower than the download speed. My upload bandwidth is about 1/20th my download bandwidth, so it takes about 20 times longer to upload large files. :|

Sorry, I'm all over the place in this post. :lol:

chozian · Post by **chozian** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:06 pm

dozer wrote:Video done.

I might have it in the wrong postion but I'm wondering if a twist grip would have been better.
I didn't use a twist cause someone said kids hit it while climbing on but he's used to not stepping on the pedal as he gets on.

Cool video! If you decide to try a different throttle, I recommend the half twist. It's less likely that they'll move the throttle when getting on the vehicle with a half twist compared to a full twist.